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[Music]

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wow

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welcome to shattered reality with your

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hosts

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kate valentine and ferusha

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prepare to have your paradigms shifted

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into truth questioned and now

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shattered reality well hello shattered

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reality listeners

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today is abraham lincoln's birthday

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don't ask me which one because i don't

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know

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this is ferusha here and i have a very

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special show for you today

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um like the last show we have two guests

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at once

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but in this case these two guests

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co-wrote

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a wonderful book but let me slate first

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a little bit about what's going on here

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it is

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february 12 2019

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and this is show number 83

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8 and 3 adds up to 11 which is a

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wonderful magic number

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and um unfortunately

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again today our very

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distinguished co-host kate valentine

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will

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not be with us but we're looking forward

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to her coming back to us

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in the very near future now our two

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guests today

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wrote as i say a wonderful book and to

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me

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i've read the book thoroughly i could

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probably re-read certain sections

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but the book is called a is for adamski

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the subtitle is the golden age of the

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ufo contactees

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and there um there are other people who

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have contributed a little bit to the

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book but

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we're not going to go into that right

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now so what i want to do

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is introduce mr greg bishop and mr adam

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go rightly

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to shattered reality podcast

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and greg is uh is somebody who in 1991

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co-founded a magazine called the

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excluded middle

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which was a journal of ufos conspiracy

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research

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psychedelia and new science

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wake up down there a collection of

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articles from the magazine was published

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in the year 2000

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by adventures unlimited press greg's

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second book was project

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beta and we did have him on talking

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about

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project beta some time ago project beta

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is the story of paul benowitz national

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security

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and the creation of a ufo myth

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of a modern ufo myth actually um

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he also wrote weird california a

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portrait

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of strange and eerie history and places

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in the golden

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state which was released in 2006.

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from december 2007 to november 2011 greg

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blogged for the ufo and paranormal site

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ufo mystic

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his 2017 book it defies language was

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composed

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for the most part of entries from that

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blog

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now coming more to the present day

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his current show is radio mysterioso and

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can be heard live

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at radiomysterioso.com

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so uh i'm gonna well let's add he is

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licensed to fly aerial drones for

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commercial clients and he's also

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a certified paraglider better him than

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me

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and an ultralight pilot he owns a

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private pilot license

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our other illustrious guest mr adam go

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rightly for two decades his articles

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have appeared in nearly every zine

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underground magazine counter-cultural

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publication

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and conspiratorial website imaginable

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well maybe imaginable i could imagine

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things

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his landmark work the shadow over santa

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susana

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black magic mind control and the manson

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family mythos

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which was published both in 2001 and

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updated

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in 2009 is considered by some

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the most comprehensive book on the tate

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la bianca murders in the prankster and

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conspiracy and the conspiracy the story

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of

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carrie thornley and how he met oswald

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and inspired the counterculture go

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rightly examines the remarkable life of

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carrie

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thornley a 1960s zen

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radical and founder of the spoof

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religion

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discordianism who was quite

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realistically being groomed

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as a lee harvey oswald patsy

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double and he has a lot of more

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a lot more credits to his name

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including happy trails to high weirdness

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james shelby's downward mystical war

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the beast of adam go rightly um

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and uh he makes some mention of uh

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jd salinger's catcher in the rye which

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may have been used as a

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control mechanism to trigger mind numb

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mine numbed manchurian candidates i

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gotta ask him about that

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but mostly we're gonna talk about a is

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for dan

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adamski so please out there in in

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podcast land put your hands together and

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uh welcome to our show adam go rightly

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and greg bishop hello guys

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how's it going greetings earthling

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greetings well over here

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on the east coast it is snowing

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uh unbelievably and i risked life and

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limb to get here so i hope

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uh my trip to the studio you appreciate

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that that

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my uh dedication to the ufo phenomena

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hey we got snow in california too i got

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snow at my house

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really yeah i live in l.a so there's no

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you know you came and visited yes yes i

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did yeah yeah

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it was it was very very um it was very

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satisfying to meet you uh personally

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greg i must say and

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who knows someday i might meet

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go rightly as well so indeed

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um the book which i have here um

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i love it it is so fun it it is

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like the most fun ufo book

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i've ever read and i can say that beyond

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the shadow of a doubt

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i've read a lot of interesting ufo books

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and

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ufo books that have made me question uh

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this my sanity as well as the sanity of

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the authors

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um all right but this one is just plain

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fun

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what it is if i if i might uh it's

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a collection of very short

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uh like anywhere from one to four page

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essays on the various different

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contactees now how many did you

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did you put in here guys

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i think yeah we go

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and it starts from from a and it goes

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all the way to like

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w i think let me look yeah to george

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hunt williamson

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right inside any z's there might be an

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x uh there are no queues no queues

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i don't think there are any x's either

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but i i've got it right in front of me

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and it doesn't it doesn't

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say any x's it goes i wish i had it in

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front of me that was real stupid

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i couldn't remember what the hell i

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wrote well how

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you know there are a lot of uh people

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here that are rather

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um disparate uh in some ways

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a lot of the the people that you mention

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are

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involved with the standing rock crowd uh

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people that went out there in the 50s

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and met with

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george adamski and crew at the the giant

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rock

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um but then there are other people

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thrown in what what were your

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um what were your parameters

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did we have any oh yeah we did

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we our parameters was what we thought

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was interesting yeah go ahead

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well i kind of put some parameters at

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the beginning that

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we wanted to draw a distinction between

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contactees and abductees although there

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is some overlap in the book it's hard to

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avoid that

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and in the introduction kind of set some

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just so we wouldn't get too crazy with

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i mean you could go on and on with

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different contactees but the parameters

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were from

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1952 when adamski had his sighting to

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uh george van tassel died and that

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wasn't like that wasn't set in stone and

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you know there's a few that are outside

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of that dates but

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that was kind of the uh basic parameters

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yeah i noticed that there were some

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people from

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earlier than the 1950s but i don't fault

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you on that they were interesting as

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well

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not too many later that was greg's fault

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no enough fault yeah it's all

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well yeah in the intro we covered some

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of that then as

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it was evolving uh craig would say hey

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how about we had this person or that

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person i'm not going to say

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no damn it these are my parameters i

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know he added

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oh gosh name escapes me now from

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from the uh spiritualism uh days greg

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the uh lady who went to mars yeah a

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woman from around 1900

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yeah catherine mueller um the the uh

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india the planet mars woman

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yes yes that was interesting i liked her

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so well i think we have belvatsky in

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there too because that counts and that's

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way before well not way before you don't

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have about

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levatsky do you have black no no i guess

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is in the introduction yeah right and uh

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pelle's in there too i believe and he's

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a little bit before

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the contact he here as well william

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dudley pelley

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um greg which uh

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which one is your favorite of these this

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group

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of individuals i i don't know i keep

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saying the same one maybe i should

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i don't know if i should get away from

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but there's two they both happen to be

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women

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one is uh molly thompson who wrote an

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entire

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record album about uh contact with space

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brothers

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yeah yeah um and

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it was called uh from worlds afar i

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actually found one online

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so i've got an actual vinyl copy oh wow

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on i think it's on asteroid records or

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saturn records

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i think it's asteroid i i read this it

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was towards the end so i i read it more

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recently than the ones towards the

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beginning

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and i have a better uh memory of it and

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it was

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asteroid records so you should play that

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sometime on

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on radio mysterioso what do you think

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yeah

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i actually have i should play more of it

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i have a i have a weird music show on

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on wfmu too and uh on their pod station

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i am actually playing um my ufo record

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and recording collection over a series

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of a bunch of

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uh shows i think i've i've done two or

285
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three now and i've got

286
00:12:15,670 --> 00:12:13,680
somewhere over somewhere near 100

287
00:12:16,629 --> 00:12:15,680
recordings of flying saucer and ufo

288
00:12:19,350 --> 00:12:16,639
songs so

289
00:12:20,710 --> 00:12:19,360
molly thompson comprises about you know

290
00:12:22,310 --> 00:12:20,720
however many were on her album i think

291
00:12:24,389 --> 00:12:22,320
she had eight or ten songs

292
00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:24,399
which were amazing and my other favorite

293
00:12:30,069 --> 00:12:26,480
was um paulina peavy

294
00:12:33,509 --> 00:12:30,079
yes who i um discovered recently to

295
00:12:35,829 --> 00:12:33,519
um and she was an artist she was born in

296
00:12:39,269 --> 00:12:35,839
1900 and died in 1999

297
00:12:39,590 --> 00:12:39,279
i believe uh and uh she said that she

298
00:12:43,269 --> 00:12:39,600
had

299
00:12:45,509 --> 00:12:43,279
called la caimo

300
00:12:46,870 --> 00:12:45,519
i think yes there's a picture of lukaimo

301
00:12:49,990 --> 00:12:46,880
in the in the book

302
00:12:52,710 --> 00:12:50,000
yeah uh she was an amazing artist and

303
00:12:54,790 --> 00:12:52,720
she and she had kind of a difficult life

304
00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:54,800
uh up to when she just decided look i'm

305
00:12:58,790 --> 00:12:57,120
just gonna live life on my own terms and

306
00:13:01,030 --> 00:12:58,800
you know i don't care what anybody

307
00:13:01,350 --> 00:13:01,040
thinks and i don't care what people say

308
00:13:03,509 --> 00:13:01,360
and

309
00:13:04,470 --> 00:13:03,519
at that point i think her creativity

310
00:13:06,230 --> 00:13:04,480
exploded

311
00:13:07,910 --> 00:13:06,240
um there's a recording of her on long

312
00:13:10,310 --> 00:13:07,920
john neville actually

313
00:13:10,949 --> 00:13:10,320
channeling whatever beings that she was

314
00:13:13,110 --> 00:13:10,959
uh

315
00:13:14,790 --> 00:13:13,120
in contact with it's pretty dramatic

316
00:13:15,509 --> 00:13:14,800
recording she just kind of bangs on the

317
00:13:17,670 --> 00:13:15,519
table and

318
00:13:19,509 --> 00:13:17,680
her voice changes into this low deep

319
00:13:21,190 --> 00:13:19,519
voice and then at the end she kind of

320
00:13:22,710 --> 00:13:21,200
says and that's what happens when they

321
00:13:26,150 --> 00:13:22,720
contact me

322
00:13:27,829 --> 00:13:26,160
and she wore a mask she designed herself

323
00:13:29,110 --> 00:13:27,839
while she was doing the channeling

324
00:13:29,910 --> 00:13:29,120
because she said it helped her do her

325
00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:29,920
artwork

326
00:13:34,470 --> 00:13:32,320
and do her um and contact the space

327
00:13:36,550 --> 00:13:34,480
whoever that space person was likaimo

328
00:13:37,990 --> 00:13:36,560
that she said was helping her throughout

329
00:13:39,910 --> 00:13:38,000
her life so you know that

330
00:13:41,430 --> 00:13:39,920
that to me it was a fascinating story

331
00:13:43,350 --> 00:13:41,440
and i found you know

332
00:13:45,110 --> 00:13:43,360
a lot of since she lived in los angeles

333
00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:45,120
for a while i was able to find

334
00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:48,480
um a good deal of information on her

335
00:13:52,310 --> 00:13:51,040
well that is she was very very very

336
00:13:54,790 --> 00:13:52,320
interesting because

337
00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:54,800
was she the one who got uh who had

338
00:13:58,629 --> 00:13:55,440
cancer

339
00:13:59,509 --> 00:13:58,639
and uh cured herself or was cured by the

340
00:14:02,310 --> 00:13:59,519
situation

341
00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:02,320
or am i conflating her with another uh

342
00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:05,120
individual another woman

343
00:14:09,829 --> 00:14:07,279
i hate somebody else yeah you i think

344
00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:09,839
you're talking about dorothy martin

345
00:14:16,230 --> 00:14:13,279
yeah yeah well that that is

346
00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:16,240
uh just to go off what i had planned to

347
00:14:20,230 --> 00:14:17,279
do for a second

348
00:14:20,790 --> 00:14:20,240
uh like a change up my order of thoughts

349
00:14:23,269 --> 00:14:20,800
here

350
00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:23,279
the idea that some of these individuals

351
00:14:28,310 --> 00:14:24,800
more than one

352
00:14:30,629 --> 00:14:28,320
uh were sick particularly i think

353
00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:30,639
two of the individuals at least maybe

354
00:14:34,470 --> 00:14:31,360
three

355
00:14:36,949 --> 00:14:34,480
had cancer that was cured what do you

356
00:14:39,189 --> 00:14:36,959
ascribe that to take that either one of

357
00:14:42,230 --> 00:14:40,710
well i've been talking a lot maybe it's

358
00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:42,240
adam's

359
00:14:45,590 --> 00:14:44,240
i don't know if i have an answer to that

360
00:14:48,949 --> 00:14:45,600
but uh

361
00:14:49,670 --> 00:14:48,959
perhaps you know that's uh dorothy

362
00:14:53,430 --> 00:14:49,680
martin's

363
00:14:58,870 --> 00:14:53,440
belief in uh something cured her of uh

364
00:15:02,790 --> 00:14:58,880
cancer she as i recall this story

365
00:15:03,590 --> 00:15:02,800
was diagnosed with cancer pretty early

366
00:15:06,870 --> 00:15:03,600
on you know

367
00:15:07,350 --> 00:15:06,880
during the period of her when she

368
00:15:10,829 --> 00:15:07,360
started

369
00:15:14,230 --> 00:15:10,839
channeling different uh venusian

370
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:14,240
masters or entities that she thought

371
00:15:18,389 --> 00:15:14,639
were

372
00:15:21,910 --> 00:15:18,399
jesus or perhaps jesus from venus and

373
00:15:24,790 --> 00:15:21,920
the you could call it a cult or a

374
00:15:26,230 --> 00:15:24,800
saucer group or kind of a religious

375
00:15:29,509 --> 00:15:26,240
movement that gathered

376
00:15:33,430 --> 00:15:29,519
around her that was uh chronicled in the

377
00:15:35,430 --> 00:15:33,440
book when prophecy fails of her group by

378
00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:35,440
forgetting the name of that group now

379
00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:37,120
the uh do you remember greg

380
00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:40,240
etherean was it or not no i don't

381
00:15:44,310 --> 00:15:41,519
remember the name of the group

382
00:15:44,550 --> 00:15:44,320
um there was one with an a and one with

383
00:15:48,870 --> 00:15:44,560
an

384
00:15:51,829 --> 00:15:48,880
them was a similar name

385
00:15:53,590 --> 00:15:51,839
that started with an a if i recall well

386
00:15:54,310 --> 00:15:53,600
there was the aetherius society but that

387
00:15:56,550 --> 00:15:54,320
has really

388
00:15:58,470 --> 00:15:56,560
nothing to do with uh dorothy martin or

389
00:16:01,670 --> 00:15:58,480
marion keach or whatever her name is

390
00:16:04,870 --> 00:16:01,680
that was yeah and uh charles

391
00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:04,880
lophead was in there and um god i can't

392
00:16:07,749 --> 00:16:05,600
remember

393
00:16:09,590 --> 00:16:07,759
although those it's funny because that

394
00:16:11,590 --> 00:16:09,600
group actually went down to south

395
00:16:12,949 --> 00:16:11,600
america later with georgetown williamson

396
00:16:15,509 --> 00:16:12,959
and tried to start a

397
00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:15,519
another branch yeah in peru yeah okay

398
00:16:19,829 --> 00:16:16,480
i'm looking at the i

399
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:19,839
am society uh was uh martin dorothy

400
00:16:24,389 --> 00:16:20,880
martin was with i

401
00:16:26,389 --> 00:16:24,399
am for a while and then she

402
00:16:27,430 --> 00:16:26,399
went with some other group here she made

403
00:16:30,069 --> 00:16:27,440
some other group

404
00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:30,079
oh the mount shasta stuff she became

405
00:16:34,230 --> 00:16:30,800
sister

406
00:16:38,069 --> 00:16:34,240
hadra uh the association

407
00:16:41,670 --> 00:16:38,079
of sananda and samat kamara

408
00:16:44,389 --> 00:16:41,680
well that's quite exotic isn't it oh she

409
00:16:46,310 --> 00:16:44,399
she had a lot going on i brought up her

410
00:16:48,069 --> 00:16:46,320
association

411
00:16:51,269 --> 00:16:48,079
the name of the group was the seekers

412
00:16:54,389 --> 00:16:51,279
now finally

413
00:16:55,829 --> 00:16:54,399
yeah and they had predicted through

414
00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:55,839
dorothy martin

415
00:16:59,829 --> 00:16:59,279
that a flood was coming of the great

416
00:17:02,870 --> 00:16:59,839
lakes

417
00:17:04,949 --> 00:17:02,880
and that it would reveal the lost

418
00:17:07,750 --> 00:17:04,959
continent of atlantis and things like

419
00:17:11,189 --> 00:17:07,760
these so there was some panic around the

420
00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:11,199
chicago area that uh the town of oak

421
00:17:15,429 --> 00:17:12,880
park which is near

422
00:17:15,990 --> 00:17:15,439
really like a suburb outside of chicago

423
00:17:19,669 --> 00:17:16,000
was gonna

424
00:17:21,829 --> 00:17:19,679
be submerged and they developed this

425
00:17:24,710 --> 00:17:21,839
belief system that the space brothers

426
00:17:27,909 --> 00:17:24,720
were going to come and rescue them

427
00:17:30,710 --> 00:17:27,919
and when the prophesied

428
00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:30,720
flood never came and the saucer landing

429
00:17:36,549 --> 00:17:33,120
never happened it

430
00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:36,559
kind of brought on a lot of reaction

431
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:39,120
from the local people in town that they

432
00:17:44,870 --> 00:17:42,240
you know pushed back against dorothy

433
00:17:47,750 --> 00:17:44,880
martin's group and charles head

434
00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:47,760
as greg mentioned was part of that uh

435
00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:49,120
group and that led uh

436
00:17:54,310 --> 00:17:52,080
to uh the book where when prophecy fails

437
00:17:56,310 --> 00:17:54,320
by a couple of anthropologists that kind

438
00:17:58,789 --> 00:17:56,320
of embedded themselves or

439
00:18:01,110 --> 00:17:58,799
infiltrated to the group that's pretty

440
00:18:04,150 --> 00:18:01,120
interesting studying you talk about the

441
00:18:07,029 --> 00:18:04,160
cancer dorothy martin

442
00:18:07,830 --> 00:18:07,039
you know at the time she was diagnosed

443
00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:07,840
in the

444
00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:11,200
50s i guess she was probably

445
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:14,799
fifth in her inner late 40s 50s

446
00:18:19,350 --> 00:18:18,400
ended up living into her mid 90s 92 to

447
00:18:22,630 --> 00:18:19,360
be exact

448
00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:22,640
yeah later uh started that group at

449
00:18:26,390 --> 00:18:23,200
mount

450
00:18:28,630 --> 00:18:26,400
shasta that she mentioned and of course

451
00:18:31,110 --> 00:18:28,640
in between that she was also

452
00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:31,120
involved with the group that included

453
00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:33,280
george hunt williamson and a few others

454
00:18:36,789 --> 00:18:33,600
that

455
00:18:40,230 --> 00:18:36,799
went uh to peru and started a

456
00:18:43,750 --> 00:18:40,240
uh once again you could call it a

457
00:18:44,310 --> 00:18:43,760
cult maybe some type of uh vision quest

458
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:44,320
that

459
00:18:55,430 --> 00:18:52,480
kind of start a retreat there in the uh

460
00:18:56,310 --> 00:18:55,440
in peru uh that revolved around their

461
00:18:59,430 --> 00:18:56,320
interactions

462
00:19:01,510 --> 00:18:59,440
channeling the space brothers

463
00:19:03,590 --> 00:19:01,520
yeah uh so what would you say that

464
00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:03,600
dorothy martin was one of your favorites

465
00:19:07,990 --> 00:19:04,080
or

466
00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:08,000
there uh adam

467
00:19:13,510 --> 00:19:11,280
well it's kind of like uh picking a

468
00:19:15,510 --> 00:19:13,520
favorite child

469
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:15,520
not that i not that i have children i

470
00:19:19,110 --> 00:19:17,600
have cats or picking their favorite cats

471
00:19:20,710 --> 00:19:19,120
you know because they all have

472
00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:20,720
they all have their own personality

473
00:19:27,669 --> 00:19:24,000
personalities we know that yes

474
00:19:28,789 --> 00:19:27,679
and so you know i get this question

475
00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:28,799
sometimes and it's

476
00:19:32,549 --> 00:19:31,600
you can kind of put the contact ease

477
00:19:35,510 --> 00:19:32,559
into different

478
00:19:38,310 --> 00:19:35,520
groups or subgroups too you know like

479
00:19:39,669 --> 00:19:38,320
who was the most humorous who is the

480
00:19:43,110 --> 00:19:39,679
most believable

481
00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:43,120
who is an outright hoaxer right conten

482
00:19:47,590 --> 00:19:46,160
uh who might have had severe mental

483
00:19:49,830 --> 00:19:47,600
problems so

484
00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:49,840
there's a lot of sub categories uh i

485
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:50,720
don't think

486
00:19:57,909 --> 00:19:54,640
that severe mental problems actually

487
00:20:00,789 --> 00:19:57,919
uh preclude contact

488
00:20:02,390 --> 00:20:00,799
of some sort i wouldn't argue that

489
00:20:04,470 --> 00:20:02,400
either i don't know for

490
00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:04,480
for sure think it's possible that they

491
00:20:07,270 --> 00:20:06,240
can't you know don't have to be mutually

492
00:20:09,510 --> 00:20:07,280
exclusive

493
00:20:10,950 --> 00:20:09,520
right right yeah people deal with these

494
00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:10,960
things in different ways

495
00:20:14,789 --> 00:20:12,960
right i think it goes all the way from

496
00:20:16,870 --> 00:20:14,799
complete making it up and

497
00:20:19,190 --> 00:20:16,880
being there being no basis in any kind

498
00:20:20,070 --> 00:20:19,200
of external reality that anybody else

499
00:20:22,230 --> 00:20:20,080
can experience

500
00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:22,240
to maybe something other people could

501
00:20:25,029 --> 00:20:23,440
see and experience

502
00:20:26,549 --> 00:20:25,039
and i'm not sure where any of these

503
00:20:30,149 --> 00:20:26,559
people lie along the spectrum

504
00:20:33,270 --> 00:20:30,159
right there's that thin line between

505
00:20:33,990 --> 00:20:33,280
sanity and madness you know that i kind

506
00:20:36,630 --> 00:20:34,000
of examined

507
00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:36,640
in other books like my book on carrie

508
00:20:41,909 --> 00:20:38,480
thornley where

509
00:20:44,950 --> 00:20:41,919
people may be dealing with some issues

510
00:20:47,190 --> 00:20:44,960
paranoid schizophrenia and these type of

511
00:20:49,029 --> 00:20:47,200
things but they're

512
00:20:51,110 --> 00:20:49,039
they they have a heightened sense of

513
00:20:51,990 --> 00:20:51,120
awareness about things or a heightened

514
00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:52,000
sense of

515
00:20:57,510 --> 00:20:55,840
paranoia so they can tune into things

516
00:21:00,149 --> 00:20:57,520
that uh

517
00:21:02,149 --> 00:21:00,159
we can't tune into maybe you know it's

518
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:02,159
like a dial on a radio or the

519
00:21:08,789 --> 00:21:06,080
volume on the radio they don't have

520
00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:08,799
uh filter or control over that so

521
00:21:12,630 --> 00:21:10,799
sometimes it's just too much information

522
00:21:14,470 --> 00:21:12,640
that drives them mad

523
00:21:16,070 --> 00:21:14,480
so there's a thin line you know that's

524
00:21:19,830 --> 00:21:16,080
the same thing they talk about with

525
00:21:23,110 --> 00:21:19,840
psychics or whoever that tune into uh

526
00:21:26,470 --> 00:21:23,120
other things are able to tune into uh

527
00:21:28,870 --> 00:21:26,480
other wave leaks and frequencies that uh

528
00:21:30,549 --> 00:21:28,880
quote unquote normal people can't well

529
00:21:35,110 --> 00:21:30,559
in some cultures

530
00:21:41,029 --> 00:21:35,120
uh the shamans are schizophrenics by

531
00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:41,039
uh western psychological diagnoses

532
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:42,720
yeah well they got their antenna up and

533
00:21:46,310 --> 00:21:45,200
so they live in that liminal state to be

534
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:46,320
able to

535
00:21:52,070 --> 00:21:51,200
see what's coming or see what messages

536
00:21:54,070 --> 00:21:52,080
there might be or see

537
00:21:56,149 --> 00:21:54,080
whatever that the group needs them to

538
00:21:58,390 --> 00:21:56,159
see and that their that madness is

539
00:22:01,510 --> 00:21:58,400
cherished and protected and

540
00:22:02,789 --> 00:22:01,520
um that you know they have to be a

541
00:22:04,630 --> 00:22:02,799
little bit crazy and not

542
00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:04,640
really on the you know on the same

543
00:22:10,630 --> 00:22:06,720
program as everybody else so they can't

544
00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:10,640
they can't they can't do these um

545
00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:12,080
they can't provide the guidance that

546
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:13,760
they're supposed to be providing or at

547
00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:15,360
least that the group

548
00:22:19,430 --> 00:22:17,760
believes they're providing i mean it's a

549
00:22:22,390 --> 00:22:19,440
i think you know these are

550
00:22:23,830 --> 00:22:22,400
uh this kind of thing is is uh put is is

551
00:22:26,470 --> 00:22:23,840
give this

552
00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:26,480
job is given to artists in our society

553
00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:27,200
they go out

554
00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:30,720
you know whatever um

555
00:22:34,070 --> 00:22:33,360
weirdness madness um insights that they

556
00:22:36,950 --> 00:22:34,080
can

557
00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:36,960
because they're not hooked into the same

558
00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:38,400
reality the rest of us

559
00:22:42,070 --> 00:22:40,240
and then that reality that we know is

560
00:22:44,070 --> 00:22:42,080
there or a lot of us do

561
00:22:45,510 --> 00:22:44,080
um we don't have conversation with it

562
00:22:47,190 --> 00:22:45,520
but if there's somebody else that has

563
00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:47,200
conversation with it and can bring us

564
00:22:50,390 --> 00:22:47,520
back

565
00:22:52,549 --> 00:22:50,400
a little bit of that um that that's uh

566
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:52,559
that's always needed in in any society

567
00:22:58,630 --> 00:22:54,640
any group i agree

568
00:22:59,990 --> 00:22:58,640
i i think that i like 95 percent agree

569
00:23:03,510 --> 00:23:00,000
with what you just said

570
00:23:04,390 --> 00:23:03,520
greg i would also say that the whole

571
00:23:07,909 --> 00:23:04,400
book

572
00:23:08,310 --> 00:23:07,919
uh save a couple of entries uh reminded

573
00:23:14,470 --> 00:23:08,320
me

574
00:23:21,990 --> 00:23:18,390
yeah quite a bit uh-huh yeah uh it's um

575
00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:22,000
i think that you know it after world war

576
00:23:25,110 --> 00:23:23,200
ii especially which is what we're

577
00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:25,120
dealing with here in in uh in the sweet

578
00:23:31,029 --> 00:23:27,120
spot as as adam was saying about

579
00:23:33,190 --> 00:23:31,039
about the book um we're dealing with um

580
00:23:34,710 --> 00:23:33,200
a a counter culture and there were other

581
00:23:36,149 --> 00:23:34,720
counter cultures available

582
00:23:37,830 --> 00:23:36,159
but this one i think was a counter

583
00:23:39,990 --> 00:23:37,840
culture based on

584
00:23:41,510 --> 00:23:40,000
spiritual precepts rather than you know

585
00:23:43,350 --> 00:23:41,520
a beatnik

586
00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:43,360
well i guess they were kind of into zen

587
00:23:47,830 --> 00:23:44,880
buddhism and stuff but

588
00:23:49,190 --> 00:23:47,840
it is based on something that is

589
00:23:52,230 --> 00:23:49,200
homegrown

590
00:23:55,110 --> 00:23:52,240
is his uh

591
00:23:55,909 --> 00:23:55,120
and speaks and spoke to people in a way

592
00:23:57,430 --> 00:23:55,919
that um

593
00:23:59,110 --> 00:23:57,440
these other communities had and it was

594
00:24:00,310 --> 00:23:59,120
available to them and they didn't have

595
00:24:03,590 --> 00:24:00,320
to go to a church

596
00:24:05,430 --> 00:24:03,600
they didn't have to go to you know um

597
00:24:06,710 --> 00:24:05,440
any kind of established group they made

598
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:06,720
their own they were kind of

599
00:24:11,909 --> 00:24:09,760
do-it-yourself religions um which which

600
00:24:13,909 --> 00:24:11,919
uh they're all over the place now but

601
00:24:15,909 --> 00:24:13,919
it was almost it was you know it was

602
00:24:17,990 --> 00:24:15,919
radical back then to the point where

603
00:24:19,190 --> 00:24:18,000
of course the fbi and other authorities

604
00:24:21,190 --> 00:24:19,200
kind of kept an eye on a lot of the

605
00:24:22,549 --> 00:24:21,200
contactees because they were just

606
00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:22,559
for a lot of people they were just too

607
00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:25,200
weird and and suspicious

608
00:24:32,310 --> 00:24:28,320
yeah i really see the contact e movement

609
00:24:35,110 --> 00:24:32,320
as an alternative religion and uh

610
00:24:36,390 --> 00:24:35,120
you know there's uh seems to me

611
00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:36,400
parallels with

612
00:24:40,950 --> 00:24:39,760
uh for instance uh you know a lot of the

613
00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:40,960
uh

614
00:24:51,990 --> 00:24:48,080
the same like

615
00:24:55,029 --> 00:24:52,000
uh adamski met orthon and van tassel

616
00:24:58,710 --> 00:24:55,039
met met uh sold uganda and

617
00:25:01,909 --> 00:24:58,720
several of them you know that

618
00:25:05,110 --> 00:25:01,919
archetype of the uh

619
00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:05,120
like ascended master well

620
00:25:12,149 --> 00:25:08,559
i got that a lot from the writing

621
00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:12,159
in the book and i am certainly aware

622
00:25:19,269 --> 00:25:16,080
that both in um the contact he movement

623
00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:19,279
and and today's world in the near-death

624
00:25:26,390 --> 00:25:20,480
experience

625
00:25:27,990 --> 00:25:26,400
there are religious overtones but what

626
00:25:31,269 --> 00:25:28,000
occurs to me

627
00:25:32,149 --> 00:25:31,279
and tell me if you disagree what occurs

628
00:25:35,269 --> 00:25:32,159
to me

629
00:25:38,470 --> 00:25:35,279
is that in any

630
00:25:41,230 --> 00:25:38,480
ufo whether it be abductee or

631
00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:41,240
contactee or experiencer the

632
00:25:45,750 --> 00:25:42,640
quote-unquote

633
00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:45,760
aliens or others as i would prefer to

634
00:25:50,950 --> 00:25:47,440
call them

635
00:25:53,510 --> 00:25:50,960
are thought to be lying to the people

636
00:25:56,789 --> 00:25:53,520
sometimes giving false information

637
00:25:59,990 --> 00:25:56,799
but on the other hand can it be just the

638
00:26:01,269 --> 00:26:00,000
information is filtered through the

639
00:26:04,789 --> 00:26:01,279
brain or the

640
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:04,799
mindset of the individual and

641
00:26:10,950 --> 00:26:08,640
colored by it so if they see

642
00:26:11,669 --> 00:26:10,960
something that looks like a human being

643
00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:11,679
is

644
00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:14,960
we have to ask are the others projecting

645
00:26:20,070 --> 00:26:15,440
that

646
00:26:23,909 --> 00:26:20,080
folks to see because

647
00:26:25,110 --> 00:26:23,919
it um kind of goes along with their

648
00:26:28,549 --> 00:26:25,120
mindset

649
00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:28,559
um rather than are these are these

650
00:26:34,470 --> 00:26:31,760
entities outright lying and

651
00:26:36,549 --> 00:26:34,480
are the entities good or bad or both i

652
00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:36,559
mean that's all in there

653
00:26:42,070 --> 00:26:40,240
or neither or don't really receive them

654
00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:42,080
you know don't really give a crap about

655
00:26:46,149 --> 00:26:43,760
us yeah

656
00:26:48,230 --> 00:26:46,159
um and that was kind of another

657
00:26:51,110 --> 00:26:48,240
parameter

658
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:51,120
of the book i don't know if how much

659
00:26:54,549 --> 00:26:52,080
greg and i really

660
00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:54,559
discussed that but with the uh we kind

661
00:26:57,990 --> 00:26:56,320
of have the same viewpoint on stuff so

662
00:27:00,470 --> 00:26:58,000
it was pretty easy to just kind of

663
00:27:02,070 --> 00:27:00,480
go ahead because he he wrote nothing

664
00:27:03,669 --> 00:27:02,080
that surprised me i was like wow i would

665
00:27:05,430 --> 00:27:03,679
have written it just like that except

666
00:27:07,430 --> 00:27:05,440
not as good i kind of i would have that

667
00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:07,440
reaction constantly reading his entries

668
00:27:11,269 --> 00:27:08,640
so

669
00:27:14,070 --> 00:27:11,279
um i was going to say with you know

670
00:27:16,230 --> 00:27:14,080
delineating between the contactees and

671
00:27:18,389 --> 00:27:16,240
abductees

672
00:27:20,149 --> 00:27:18,399
what you had with that transition

673
00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:20,159
wherever it happened it kind of started

674
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:22,480
happening in the uh 60s with betty and

675
00:27:27,590 --> 00:27:24,720
barney hill that she went

676
00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:27,600
uh from a uh the more golden age of the

677
00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:29,360
contactees to the

678
00:27:35,909 --> 00:27:32,559
dark age where you you know that

679
00:27:39,190 --> 00:27:35,919
by the uh late 70s and 80s

680
00:27:41,669 --> 00:27:39,200
uh you know the the uh orthon in those

681
00:27:42,870 --> 00:27:41,679
types the ascended masters of peace and

682
00:27:45,190 --> 00:27:42,880
love

683
00:27:48,549 --> 00:27:45,200
had turned into a lot of cases what the

684
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:48,559
abductees were experiencing these

685
00:27:54,710 --> 00:27:52,320
uh grays or reptilians or

686
00:27:56,950 --> 00:27:54,720
entities that seemed very alien as

687
00:27:59,669 --> 00:27:56,960
opposed to warthog and the like

688
00:28:00,549 --> 00:27:59,679
that you know were conducting all these

689
00:28:02,870 --> 00:28:00,559
uh

690
00:28:03,750 --> 00:28:02,880
medical experiments that seemed cruel

691
00:28:05,430 --> 00:28:03,760
and inhuman

692
00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:05,440
so you know that's part of the

693
00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:07,200
transition i think the difference

694
00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:08,000
between

695
00:28:14,710 --> 00:28:11,200
the old school contactees and the modern

696
00:28:17,350 --> 00:28:14,720
day abductees or experiencers or

697
00:28:20,549 --> 00:28:17,360
whatever you want to call them

698
00:28:21,430 --> 00:28:20,559
yes um and you do have some people that

699
00:28:23,990 --> 00:28:21,440
uh cross

700
00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:24,000
over like our sort of both like charles

701
00:28:27,990 --> 00:28:24,720
hickson

702
00:28:31,029 --> 00:28:28,000
uh we recently interviewed

703
00:28:34,310 --> 00:28:31,039
calvin parker who was the man who

704
00:28:39,590 --> 00:28:34,320
was uh reportedly abducted with hixson

705
00:28:44,950 --> 00:28:42,389
yes yeah a few few of the entries did

706
00:28:48,149 --> 00:28:44,960
span both groups and the reason why i

707
00:28:49,510 --> 00:28:48,159
i read um the charles hickson book well

708
00:28:52,470 --> 00:28:49,520
i guess it was uh written with

709
00:28:54,789 --> 00:28:52,480
um somebody named martinez i think i

710
00:28:58,630 --> 00:28:54,799
can't remember

711
00:29:01,029 --> 00:28:58,640
mendez i think uh charles hickson's book

712
00:29:02,789 --> 00:29:01,039
um which came out in the early 80s i

713
00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:02,799
believe

714
00:29:08,549 --> 00:29:06,000
what kind of fascinated me about

715
00:29:09,190 --> 00:29:08,559
hixon was you know most people think of

716
00:29:10,710 --> 00:29:09,200
him as

717
00:29:12,549 --> 00:29:10,720
you know this guy that was picked up you

718
00:29:16,070 --> 00:29:12,559
can see my uh little my

719
00:29:18,230 --> 00:29:16,080
my avatar there on skype um

720
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:18,240
yes that's yeah that's the pascagoula

721
00:29:20,710 --> 00:29:19,840
one of the pascagoula entities so it's

722
00:29:24,310 --> 00:29:20,720
one of my favorite

723
00:29:27,190 --> 00:29:24,320
uh cases oh okay i actually

724
00:29:27,669 --> 00:29:27,200
are our trusty engineer bill can see

725
00:29:32,230 --> 00:29:27,679
your

726
00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:32,240
you talking about the pascagoula

727
00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:33,200
creature

728
00:29:37,590 --> 00:29:35,520
of the charles hickson description the

729
00:29:40,070 --> 00:29:37,600
guy with the long arms and the

730
00:29:41,510 --> 00:29:40,080
the wrinkled body yeah and the little

731
00:29:42,870 --> 00:29:41,520
pointy things coming out of it where the

732
00:29:44,789 --> 00:29:42,880
nose and ears would be it looks like a

733
00:29:46,789 --> 00:29:44,799
kachina doll to me yes yes

734
00:29:47,909 --> 00:29:46,799
william mendes was the person who

735
00:29:51,269 --> 00:29:47,919
william mendes

736
00:29:53,510 --> 00:29:51,279
co-wrote with uh hixson yeah

737
00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:53,520
um but the point with the hixson was

738
00:29:56,870 --> 00:29:55,440
when i read that book i didn't realize

739
00:29:59,990 --> 00:29:56,880
that he had subsequent

740
00:30:01,110 --> 00:30:00,000
he was a repeater witness um which used

741
00:30:02,870 --> 00:30:01,120
to be

742
00:30:04,389 --> 00:30:02,880
kind of anathema and ufology it's like

743
00:30:05,990 --> 00:30:04,399
well if somebody saw something more than

744
00:30:06,310 --> 00:30:06,000
once then you know they must be nuts or

745
00:30:08,710 --> 00:30:06,320
want

746
00:30:10,230 --> 00:30:08,720
one publicity or whatever so actually

747
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:10,240
when when hixson said this

748
00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:11,760
this it was kind of brave of him to

749
00:30:15,990 --> 00:30:14,240
admit it that one he had had two or

750
00:30:18,470 --> 00:30:16,000
three more experiences

751
00:30:19,110 --> 00:30:18,480
and um one of them with his entire

752
00:30:21,590 --> 00:30:19,120
family

753
00:30:23,350 --> 00:30:21,600
yeah actually uh and two with something

754
00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:23,360
very close like sitting on the highway

755
00:30:27,590 --> 00:30:24,720
with lights and everything

756
00:30:28,310 --> 00:30:27,600
um but two he said he was getting

757
00:30:31,590 --> 00:30:28,320
messages

758
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:31,600
mentally uh uh in these in uh

759
00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:33,440
in every one of these cases i don't know

760
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:34,960
about the first one but at least the

761
00:30:38,950 --> 00:30:37,919
the two or three that came after um you

762
00:30:40,630 --> 00:30:38,960
have been chosen

763
00:30:42,230 --> 00:30:40,640
you know to give a message and it's a

764
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:42,240
message of peace and brotherhood and all

765
00:30:45,750 --> 00:30:42,640
that

766
00:30:47,269 --> 00:30:45,760
which is 100 right down the line a what

767
00:30:47,830 --> 00:30:47,279
you would call a classic contact d

768
00:30:49,669 --> 00:30:47,840
message

769
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:49,679
yes so i thought that was really

770
00:30:52,710 --> 00:30:51,360
interesting that hixson had that happen

771
00:30:54,310 --> 00:30:52,720
to him you know he wasn't into the

772
00:30:56,310 --> 00:30:54,320
contact d movement or anything like that

773
00:30:58,149 --> 00:30:56,320
he's he was kind of off on his own

774
00:30:59,909 --> 00:30:58,159
and had his own weird and basically

775
00:31:02,470 --> 00:30:59,919
terrifying experience

776
00:31:04,149 --> 00:31:02,480
and then um he or whatever it was that

777
00:31:07,269 --> 00:31:04,159
had contact with him or both

778
00:31:10,549 --> 00:31:07,279
came to this kind of peace with it um uh

779
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:10,559
and it couched in kind of a uh almost uh

780
00:31:14,149 --> 00:31:13,440
i don't want to say messianic but a kind

781
00:31:17,190 --> 00:31:14,159
of a you know

782
00:31:18,870 --> 00:31:17,200
we think what all the ufo people say

783
00:31:21,029 --> 00:31:18,880
we things are messed up and they need to

784
00:31:22,470 --> 00:31:21,039
be fixed and you're you're part of that

785
00:31:23,669 --> 00:31:22,480
solution so you know if everybody

786
00:31:25,269 --> 00:31:23,679
thought that way maybe things weren't

787
00:31:28,389 --> 00:31:25,279
wouldn't be as bad as they are but

788
00:31:30,070 --> 00:31:28,399
yeah well there's that yeah so

789
00:31:31,990 --> 00:31:30,080
charles hickson did i when you had

790
00:31:32,549 --> 00:31:32,000
calvin on it i don't think he had the

791
00:31:34,149 --> 00:31:32,559
same

792
00:31:35,830 --> 00:31:34,159
i don't think he had repeat experiences

793
00:31:38,950 --> 00:31:35,840
at least as far as you know oh he did

794
00:31:42,310 --> 00:31:38,960
he did have some repeat experiences um

795
00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:42,320
as well and i would have to say that

796
00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:46,240
he came off to me both in his book and

797
00:31:50,549 --> 00:31:49,440
in speaking to him as a hundred percent

798
00:31:53,110 --> 00:31:50,559
genuine

799
00:31:53,990 --> 00:31:53,120
uh just like salt of the earth kind of a

800
00:31:57,590 --> 00:31:54,000
guy

801
00:32:00,870 --> 00:31:57,600
um as does uh one of somebody else

802
00:32:01,669 --> 00:32:00,880
who had a very similar experience who i

803
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:01,679
had on

804
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:04,880
name of terry lovelace um and i think

805
00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:05,840
the same thing

806
00:32:10,070 --> 00:32:09,440
of of travis walton seems a hundred

807
00:32:13,110 --> 00:32:10,080
percent

808
00:32:16,389 --> 00:32:13,120
um uh sincere

809
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:16,399
now if i was to say i knew what happened

810
00:32:21,029 --> 00:32:18,000
to any of these people

811
00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:21,039
i would be lying but i would say on the

812
00:32:25,590 --> 00:32:21,760
other hand

813
00:32:29,029 --> 00:32:25,600
that something definitely did happen

814
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:29,039
to all four of those guys

815
00:32:35,669 --> 00:32:32,240
by that i mean uh hixon and uh

816
00:32:38,549 --> 00:32:35,679
parker and uh travis walton

817
00:32:39,029 --> 00:32:38,559
and terry lovely something definitely

818
00:32:42,549 --> 00:32:39,039
did

819
00:32:45,669 --> 00:32:42,559
happen um and something very

820
00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:45,679
similar happened to terry lovelace

821
00:32:50,230 --> 00:32:48,240
and uh the person he was with who is now

822
00:32:53,669 --> 00:32:50,240
unfortunately deceased

823
00:32:56,789 --> 00:32:53,679
as what happened to charles hickson

824
00:33:00,310 --> 00:32:56,799
and um calvin parker

825
00:33:03,669 --> 00:33:00,320
um so that is it's it's sort of

826
00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:03,679
it's sort of interesting to contemplate

827
00:33:07,909 --> 00:33:06,480
when we hear about uh people like

828
00:33:11,430 --> 00:33:07,919
jacques valet

829
00:33:14,710 --> 00:33:11,440
and uh the people from uh not to be

830
00:33:17,909 --> 00:33:14,720
incredibly um

831
00:33:19,430 --> 00:33:17,919
uh go into these people particularly i'm

832
00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:19,440
thinking all of a sudden my mind went

833
00:33:22,789 --> 00:33:20,080
blank

834
00:33:23,269 --> 00:33:22,799
uh the people who are now promoting some

835
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:23,279
form

836
00:33:31,029 --> 00:33:27,600
of uh disclosure with

837
00:33:33,590 --> 00:33:31,039
the rock star from blink 1a

838
00:33:34,230 --> 00:33:33,600
tom de long and that group not not the

839
00:33:37,269 --> 00:33:34,240
long

840
00:33:40,710 --> 00:33:37,279
particularly but they profess

841
00:33:43,509 --> 00:33:40,720
to have metal that is uh

842
00:33:44,149 --> 00:33:43,519
uh kind of different than we find on

843
00:33:46,149 --> 00:33:44,159
earth

844
00:33:47,269 --> 00:33:46,159
and the fact that jacques valet says

845
00:33:49,350 --> 00:33:47,279
something about it

846
00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:49,360
lends a little bit of credence to that

847
00:33:53,590 --> 00:33:51,279
as far as i'm concerned but

848
00:33:55,350 --> 00:33:53,600
i don't know what what exactly is going

849
00:33:57,830 --> 00:33:55,360
on there with those folks

850
00:33:58,789 --> 00:33:57,840
and i don't want to get like incredibly

851
00:34:01,350 --> 00:33:58,799
into that

852
00:34:03,590 --> 00:34:01,360
right now no you you should uh read and

853
00:34:07,909 --> 00:34:03,600
have on diana walsh basulka because she

854
00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:09,109
now we're getting totally away from the

855
00:34:12,629 --> 00:34:10,720
book but she i'm sure she talked about

856
00:34:16,389 --> 00:34:12,639
the metal pieces she saw too

857
00:34:19,990 --> 00:34:16,399
yes and um yes she did speak to that

858
00:34:23,190 --> 00:34:20,000
to some extent and um i went with her to

859
00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:23,200
a place not so much about the ufos

860
00:34:28,629 --> 00:34:26,560
but kind of about how people

861
00:34:30,310 --> 00:34:28,639
don't really know what reality is

862
00:34:33,430 --> 00:34:30,320
anymore because of

863
00:34:36,790 --> 00:34:33,440
of uh you know you see a movie uh

864
00:34:38,950 --> 00:34:36,800
like oh yeah yeah and then you think

865
00:34:40,710 --> 00:34:38,960
that that's the reality when the reality

866
00:34:43,750 --> 00:34:40,720
may have been something different

867
00:34:45,669 --> 00:34:43,760
and then yeah your memory conflates it

868
00:34:48,629 --> 00:34:45,679
especially if it's something that was

869
00:34:49,829 --> 00:34:48,639
frightening exciting you like it you

870
00:34:52,629 --> 00:34:49,839
hate it whatever

871
00:34:54,069 --> 00:34:52,639
it becomes conflated as an actual memory

872
00:34:55,589 --> 00:34:54,079
um with with other memories that you

873
00:34:56,069 --> 00:34:55,599
have yeah she talks about that a bit of

874
00:34:58,310 --> 00:34:56,079
the book

875
00:34:59,430 --> 00:34:58,320
i haven't seen the product it's relevant

876
00:35:01,750 --> 00:34:59,440
to the contact d thing

877
00:35:03,030 --> 00:35:01,760
yeah absolutely yes i haven't seen the

878
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:03,040
project blue book

879
00:35:07,990 --> 00:35:06,000
uh series at all yet i'll probably try

880
00:35:10,390 --> 00:35:08,000
to take a look at it at some point

881
00:35:11,829 --> 00:35:10,400
but i would imagine that that is what's

882
00:35:14,390 --> 00:35:11,839
going to happen with that

883
00:35:15,589 --> 00:35:14,400
that people will see that and see that

884
00:35:17,510 --> 00:35:15,599
for the reality

885
00:35:21,910 --> 00:35:17,520
while it may be somewhat similar to the

886
00:35:28,710 --> 00:35:25,430
yeah there's a kernel of uh truth to it

887
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:28,720
there was a jay allen heineck but

888
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:31,680
i hear you know parts of that uh program

889
00:35:36,210 --> 00:35:34,560
are pretty exaggerated

890
00:35:38,870 --> 00:35:36,220
what is reality

891
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:38,880
[Laughter]

892
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:40,720
well i heard people complaining about

893
00:35:45,670 --> 00:35:42,640
that show i haven't seen it and

894
00:35:46,390 --> 00:35:45,680
my only answer is if you if they put if

895
00:35:48,630 --> 00:35:46,400
they uh

896
00:35:50,790 --> 00:35:48,640
produced what ufo researchers would want

897
00:35:54,390 --> 00:35:50,800
to be on tv nobody would watch it

898
00:35:56,069 --> 00:35:54,400
yeah well spending spent hundreds of

899
00:35:58,390 --> 00:35:56,079
hours going through some files and

900
00:36:00,230 --> 00:35:58,400
sitting there reading stuff

901
00:36:01,430 --> 00:36:00,240
well yeah some something close to that

902
00:36:01,990 --> 00:36:01,440
well why didn't you talk about this why

903
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:02,000
don't you

904
00:36:06,069 --> 00:36:04,160
well they have to make a story yeah yeah

905
00:36:09,510 --> 00:36:06,079
and maybe it's inaccurate

906
00:36:11,430 --> 00:36:09,520
and outright made up and um whatever

907
00:36:12,790 --> 00:36:11,440
uh i'm sure i wouldn't be happy with it

908
00:36:14,230 --> 00:36:12,800
either um but

909
00:36:15,670 --> 00:36:14,240
you know that's what hollywood does it

910
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:15,680
creates a story out of something that's

911
00:36:20,150 --> 00:36:18,000
not a story just to keep your interest

912
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:20,160
and yeah they could probably do less

913
00:36:23,030 --> 00:36:21,680
exaggeration a little bit more

914
00:36:26,230 --> 00:36:23,040
expository

915
00:36:27,910 --> 00:36:26,240
you know uh information or

916
00:36:29,910 --> 00:36:27,920
a dramatization of some some of the

917
00:36:31,750 --> 00:36:29,920
things that happened to heinek

918
00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:31,760
you know that'd be great but like i said

919
00:36:35,510 --> 00:36:33,440
it's not it's uh

920
00:36:37,349 --> 00:36:35,520
it would not be put on tv and probably

921
00:36:38,710 --> 00:36:37,359
nobody would watch it because

922
00:36:40,630 --> 00:36:38,720
those people know how to make to keep

923
00:36:44,710 --> 00:36:40,640
people's interest yeah

924
00:36:48,790 --> 00:36:44,720
ufologists for the most part do not

925
00:36:49,670 --> 00:36:48,800
well um yeah i guess i will try to watch

926
00:36:52,510 --> 00:36:49,680
at least

927
00:36:54,310 --> 00:36:52,520
an episode of it i uh don't have a

928
00:36:56,710 --> 00:36:54,320
television

929
00:36:59,030 --> 00:36:56,720
but i will try to get that on the

930
00:37:01,910 --> 00:36:59,040
internet at some point just as a

931
00:37:03,349 --> 00:37:01,920
point of research so to speak but what

932
00:37:07,030 --> 00:37:03,359
i'm sure about

933
00:37:09,030 --> 00:37:07,040
is that the uh what diana walsh basalka

934
00:37:11,589 --> 00:37:09,040
discusses in the central part of her

935
00:37:12,470 --> 00:37:11,599
book not the beginning not the end but

936
00:37:16,470 --> 00:37:12,480
the center

937
00:37:20,150 --> 00:37:16,480
portion is basically that we will never

938
00:37:20,710 --> 00:37:20,160
we won't remember 200 years from now if

939
00:37:22,710 --> 00:37:20,720
we

940
00:37:24,069 --> 00:37:22,720
so live that long i don't mean you and i

941
00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:24,079
will live that long but if there are

942
00:37:29,190 --> 00:37:26,160
still human beings which i doubt

943
00:37:32,550 --> 00:37:29,200
um there will probably

944
00:37:35,990 --> 00:37:32,560
uh have a have a distorted view

945
00:37:37,589 --> 00:37:36,000
of what went on in terms of project blue

946
00:37:39,510 --> 00:37:37,599
book not that it will matter a great

947
00:37:41,270 --> 00:37:39,520
deal 200 years from now but

948
00:37:43,030 --> 00:37:41,280
their view will be distorted by

949
00:37:44,710 --> 00:37:43,040
hollywood

950
00:37:46,390 --> 00:37:44,720
yeah well everything's distorted by

951
00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:46,400
history yes

952
00:37:50,069 --> 00:37:48,400
and just it's a as you said with diane

953
00:37:50,630 --> 00:37:50,079
it's even more so by seeing something

954
00:37:56,310 --> 00:37:50,640
that

955
00:37:57,190 --> 00:37:56,320
read or heard or whatever but seen as a

956
00:38:00,470 --> 00:37:57,200
visual

957
00:38:01,910 --> 00:38:00,480
medium um i don't i just i'm trying to

958
00:38:02,390 --> 00:38:01,920
think i don't think there's ever been a

959
00:38:04,870 --> 00:38:02,400
major

960
00:38:05,430 --> 00:38:04,880
hollywood movie made about any contact d

961
00:38:08,069 --> 00:38:05,440
stories

962
00:38:09,510 --> 00:38:08,079
at all um which would be kind of

963
00:38:11,349 --> 00:38:09,520
interesting i mean i'm sure they'd

964
00:38:13,430 --> 00:38:11,359
completely mess it up and we'd hate it

965
00:38:15,750 --> 00:38:13,440
but

966
00:38:16,950 --> 00:38:15,760
it might be fun you know do the do the

967
00:38:18,710 --> 00:38:16,960
um do the

968
00:38:19,990 --> 00:38:18,720
raelian story that might be kind of

969
00:38:22,710 --> 00:38:20,000
interesting

970
00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:22,720
yes well i think probably to do the

971
00:38:27,750 --> 00:38:24,400
raelian story

972
00:38:30,630 --> 00:38:27,760
uh you would might have to wait until uh

973
00:38:31,990 --> 00:38:30,640
uh what's his name vahilian i can't even

974
00:38:35,510 --> 00:38:32,000
say his name i don't speak

975
00:38:38,950 --> 00:38:35,520
french i don't either claude

976
00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:41,190
he would have to probably be passed or

977
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:42,960
you would get a lawsuit

978
00:38:47,990 --> 00:38:46,079
but um i think that i think it would be

979
00:38:50,069 --> 00:38:48,000
wonderful if the two of you

980
00:38:52,630 --> 00:38:50,079
did a treatment for hollywood you might

981
00:38:54,150 --> 00:38:52,640
get rich

982
00:38:55,910 --> 00:38:54,160
i seriously doubt that but there's

983
00:38:56,390 --> 00:38:55,920
nothing and nothing's out nothing's out

984
00:38:58,630 --> 00:38:56,400
of uh

985
00:39:01,670 --> 00:38:58,640
nothing's out of the question my might

986
00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:01,680
is the key word there yeah it might

987
00:39:06,390 --> 00:39:04,079
be mighty difficult well if you had a

988
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:06,400
good if you had a good

989
00:39:12,390 --> 00:39:09,599
showbiz lawyer i would suggest that you

990
00:39:14,470 --> 00:39:12,400
invest in a good showbiz lawyer i want

991
00:39:18,069 --> 00:39:14,480
to tell you my favorite person

992
00:39:19,430 --> 00:39:18,079
i think uh in the book is uh the

993
00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:19,440
gentleman down in

994
00:39:26,470 --> 00:39:22,960
i was at mississippi or louisiana who

995
00:39:29,430 --> 00:39:26,480
ran a trailer park and he built the

996
00:39:29,829 --> 00:39:29,440
monument outside of to the ufo that he

997
00:39:33,430 --> 00:39:29,839
saw

998
00:39:36,550 --> 00:39:33,440
and he let people stay on his uh on his

999
00:39:38,710 --> 00:39:36,560
trailer park uh longer than than

1000
00:39:42,150 --> 00:39:38,720
even when they hadn't paid and he just

1001
00:39:42,950 --> 00:39:42,160
seemed like a really nice person yeah

1002
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:42,960
that was uh

1003
00:39:48,950 --> 00:39:46,160
john reeves in florida as i recall

1004
00:39:50,150 --> 00:39:48,960
okay it was florida all those states all

1005
00:39:53,270 --> 00:39:50,160
running yeah it seemed

1006
00:39:56,950 --> 00:39:53,280
seemed like a genuinely uh nice fellow

1007
00:39:59,270 --> 00:39:56,960
uh and yeah he had in counter out

1008
00:40:01,829 --> 00:39:59,280
uh there in the sticks he was walking

1009
00:40:05,109 --> 00:40:01,839
along one day and uh

1010
00:40:10,630 --> 00:40:05,119
saw a creature come out of a

1011
00:40:13,829 --> 00:40:10,640
ship uh had a uh it was kind of

1012
00:40:14,310 --> 00:40:13,839
funny sighting that he was startled and

1013
00:40:15,829 --> 00:40:14,320
he

1014
00:40:19,349 --> 00:40:15,839
[Music]

1015
00:40:22,390 --> 00:40:19,359
reeves was and so he turned around

1016
00:40:25,829 --> 00:40:22,400
tried to hide till it out and

1017
00:40:28,950 --> 00:40:25,839
fell over some brush and uh glasses fell

1018
00:40:31,990 --> 00:40:28,960
off his face and the kindly uh

1019
00:40:32,710 --> 00:40:32,000
alien or robot it was hard to tell came

1020
00:40:34,950 --> 00:40:32,720
over and

1021
00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:34,960
john reeves thought that he was gonna

1022
00:40:39,750 --> 00:40:37,760
kill him or something but the alien

1023
00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:39,760
bent over and picked up his glasses and

1024
00:40:51,510 --> 00:40:47,829
took a oh i know what had

1025
00:40:52,630 --> 00:40:51,520
startled john reeves the initially the

1026
00:40:55,430 --> 00:40:52,640
et

1027
00:40:56,710 --> 00:40:55,440
taken what looked like a photograph of

1028
00:40:59,750 --> 00:40:56,720
reeves and

1029
00:41:01,510 --> 00:40:59,760
it uh sent a flash and blinded him and

1030
00:41:04,870 --> 00:41:01,520
then that's when he stumbled and dropped

1031
00:41:09,030 --> 00:41:08,550
after that encounter the e.t took off in

1032
00:41:13,030 --> 00:41:09,040
his

1033
00:41:17,349 --> 00:41:13,040
ship and left behind uh some type of

1034
00:41:20,309 --> 00:41:17,359
uh writings hieroglyphs of some sort

1035
00:41:22,309 --> 00:41:20,319
that later on project blue book

1036
00:41:24,230 --> 00:41:22,319
investigators looked at

1037
00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:24,240
and determined it was a hoax so that's

1038
00:41:27,510 --> 00:41:25,680
kind of the contradiction

1039
00:41:29,109 --> 00:41:27,520
you have with a lot of these guys you

1040
00:41:32,630 --> 00:41:29,119
know he seemed like a

1041
00:41:34,550 --> 00:41:32,640
generally kind-hearted fellow but there

1042
00:41:37,910 --> 00:41:34,560
are some elements of

1043
00:41:41,270 --> 00:41:37,920
hoaxery going on there perhaps and

1044
00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:41,280
as you noted he had a huge uh

1045
00:41:45,430 --> 00:41:44,160
made a saucer monument in his front yard

1046
00:41:48,230 --> 00:41:45,440
that later local

1047
00:41:51,190 --> 00:41:48,240
the local authorities hadn't teared down

1048
00:41:54,309 --> 00:41:51,200
and it became kind of a

1049
00:41:57,990 --> 00:41:54,319
place different people would visit

1050
00:42:02,390 --> 00:41:58,000
uh such as i guess wrote in the book

1051
00:42:06,470 --> 00:42:02,400
tuesday weld for instance jimmy page uh

1052
00:42:10,150 --> 00:42:06,480
came out to uh yeah okay yeah we had pat

1053
00:42:11,030 --> 00:42:10,160
boone too and i came across john reeves

1054
00:42:32,550 --> 00:42:11,040
i

1055
00:42:34,710 --> 00:42:32,560
the 80s and uh

1056
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:34,720
talked to a lot of the contactees but

1057
00:42:40,390 --> 00:42:36,480
also

1058
00:42:42,790 --> 00:42:40,400
uh took a lot of photos of uh

1059
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:42,800
homemade saucers people had in their

1060
00:42:48,790 --> 00:42:44,560
front yards and kind of the

1061
00:42:53,349 --> 00:42:48,800
rocket architecture

1062
00:42:55,910 --> 00:42:53,359
that grew out of the 50s and 60s

1063
00:42:56,950 --> 00:42:55,920
how about how about jackie gleason's

1064
00:42:59,750 --> 00:42:56,960
saucer home

1065
00:43:02,470 --> 00:42:59,760
that he lived for a while in a a home uh

1066
00:43:05,349 --> 00:43:02,480
that looked like a flying saucer

1067
00:43:07,349 --> 00:43:05,359
might look if you were to do it did did

1068
00:43:08,870 --> 00:43:07,359
you did he take a picture of that

1069
00:43:10,870 --> 00:43:08,880
i guess you might not know i don't i

1070
00:43:13,109 --> 00:43:10,880
don't i don't know if that's in doug's

1071
00:43:14,150 --> 00:43:13,119
book i don't think so but yeah i've seen

1072
00:43:17,190 --> 00:43:14,160
pictures and it was

1073
00:43:21,030 --> 00:43:17,200
uh awesome uh apparently

1074
00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:21,040
uh jackie gleason had a huge ufo library

1075
00:43:26,870 --> 00:43:24,640
as well he had at the time of his death

1076
00:43:28,069 --> 00:43:26,880
and i've said this before on the show so

1077
00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:28,079
please forgive me

1078
00:43:32,710 --> 00:43:30,319
listeners if you've heard this before

1079
00:43:36,470 --> 00:43:32,720
jackie gleason at the time of his death

1080
00:43:39,589 --> 00:43:36,480
had the largest library of paranormal

1081
00:43:41,990 --> 00:43:39,599
subjects in the world

1082
00:43:43,270 --> 00:43:42,000
no no you know we know what do we know

1083
00:43:46,630 --> 00:43:43,280
what happened to it

1084
00:43:48,870 --> 00:43:46,640
um i think that his wife might still be

1085
00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:48,880
living so we could always ask her

1086
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:52,800
i guess i think she might be living

1087
00:43:56,230 --> 00:43:55,280
i also read somewhere that i'm not sure

1088
00:43:58,470 --> 00:43:56,240
if it was that

1089
00:43:59,750 --> 00:43:58,480
in that house or a saucer house you know

1090
00:44:02,950 --> 00:43:59,760
he liked to drink a bit

1091
00:44:06,150 --> 00:44:02,960
so he had like five or six

1092
00:44:08,630 --> 00:44:06,160
different uh wet bars set up

1093
00:44:12,710 --> 00:44:08,640
throughout the house but he only had one

1094
00:44:17,349 --> 00:44:15,750
was an oversight especially if he liked

1095
00:44:19,030 --> 00:44:17,359
to drink beer it would be a big

1096
00:44:20,390 --> 00:44:19,040
oversight if he had people over and

1097
00:44:23,589 --> 00:44:20,400
they're all drinking beer

1098
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:23,599
eating bathrooms um but you do mention

1099
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:24,640
jackie gleason

1100
00:44:28,069 --> 00:44:26,640
uh i don't know which one of you wrote

1101
00:44:30,470 --> 00:44:28,079
exactly what

1102
00:44:31,589 --> 00:44:30,480
but uh yes he was mentioned several

1103
00:44:34,630 --> 00:44:31,599
times as

1104
00:44:37,910 --> 00:44:34,640
uh being uh calling up long john nebel

1105
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:37,920
or being on was it carson with one of

1106
00:44:41,910 --> 00:44:38,319
them

1107
00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:41,920
and kind of uh you know

1108
00:44:45,030 --> 00:44:44,400
making a bet could they produce what

1109
00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:45,040
they

1110
00:44:51,589 --> 00:44:49,680
hardcore

1111
00:44:53,589 --> 00:44:51,599
researcher it seems you know given the

1112
00:44:57,349 --> 00:44:53,599
fact of that library he was

1113
00:45:01,109 --> 00:44:57,359
genuinely genuinely interested in the

1114
00:45:04,470 --> 00:45:01,119
topic but i don't think he suffered

1115
00:45:06,550 --> 00:45:04,480
fools gladly or you know anybody thought

1116
00:45:07,589 --> 00:45:06,560
was trying to pull a fast one he would

1117
00:45:09,430 --> 00:45:07,599
call them on the

1118
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:09,440
carpet about it and that's what he did

1119
00:45:13,109 --> 00:45:10,720
with

1120
00:45:14,230 --> 00:45:13,119
george king of the ethereans on one of

1121
00:45:18,069 --> 00:45:14,240
the episodes

1122
00:45:20,069 --> 00:45:18,079
of uh long john neville

1123
00:45:21,670 --> 00:45:20,079
in fact he went on long john neville a

1124
00:45:23,990 --> 00:45:21,680
couple of times and

1125
00:45:26,309 --> 00:45:24,000
busted the chops of different people

1126
00:45:29,750 --> 00:45:26,319
making uh

1127
00:45:32,950 --> 00:45:29,760
one claim or another yeah now

1128
00:45:35,190 --> 00:45:32,960
um i guess you i think that

1129
00:45:36,470 --> 00:45:35,200
greg would kind of agree with this uh

1130
00:45:38,710 --> 00:45:36,480
from having

1131
00:45:40,710 --> 00:45:38,720
previous conversations with him but i

1132
00:45:43,750 --> 00:45:40,720
don't know what you would say about this

1133
00:45:44,829 --> 00:45:43,760
uh adam that some people could have some

1134
00:45:48,710 --> 00:45:44,839
form of

1135
00:45:50,950 --> 00:45:48,720
experience and be you know just a common

1136
00:45:53,990 --> 00:45:50,960
person without too much money

1137
00:45:57,030 --> 00:45:54,000
uh like a working class individual and

1138
00:46:00,069 --> 00:45:57,040
not necessarily uh brilliant uh

1139
00:46:00,550 --> 00:46:00,079
brilliant thought patterns and uh they

1140
00:46:06,069 --> 00:46:00,560
might

1141
00:46:07,030 --> 00:46:06,079
maybe i can sell this in one way or

1142
00:46:09,670 --> 00:46:07,040
another and

1143
00:46:12,790 --> 00:46:09,680
and then uh sort of invent things to

1144
00:46:16,550 --> 00:46:14,710
well yeah i think that happened with a

1145
00:46:19,750 --> 00:46:16,560
few of the contactees

1146
00:46:21,910 --> 00:46:19,760
you've come up with a story and uh

1147
00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:21,920
you know they might not even be literate

1148
00:46:24,470 --> 00:46:22,800
and uh

1149
00:46:25,829 --> 00:46:24,480
but they you know they could weave a

1150
00:46:28,069 --> 00:46:25,839
good tale or had

1151
00:46:29,510 --> 00:46:28,079
some experience i think for instance in

1152
00:46:33,030 --> 00:46:29,520
the case of a

1153
00:46:35,270 --> 00:46:33,040
truman bethram he had a ghostwriter for

1154
00:46:35,670 --> 00:46:35,280
his book and i know george adamski as

1155
00:46:38,870 --> 00:46:35,680
well

1156
00:46:42,309 --> 00:46:38,880
had a ghostwriter

1157
00:46:46,790 --> 00:46:42,319
andy and you look at the pascal luke

1158
00:46:50,309 --> 00:46:49,430
i mean none of those guys were uh

1159
00:46:53,430 --> 00:46:50,319
obviously

1160
00:46:56,630 --> 00:46:53,440
uh literary types

1161
00:47:00,870 --> 00:46:59,430
no absolutely not the guys at pascagoula

1162
00:47:02,150 --> 00:47:00,880
something happened something big

1163
00:47:03,430 --> 00:47:02,160
happened to them i'm

1164
00:47:05,190 --> 00:47:03,440
quite sure of that i think they're

1165
00:47:06,630 --> 00:47:05,200
making it up no i'm not absolutely

1166
00:47:09,990 --> 00:47:06,640
certain about any of this stuff

1167
00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:10,000
well they had uh other witnesses there

1168
00:47:13,589 --> 00:47:12,240
i mean as much as you can be certain of

1169
00:47:15,510 --> 00:47:13,599
anything um

1170
00:47:18,390 --> 00:47:15,520
like you expect there to you know you

1171
00:47:20,549 --> 00:47:18,400
expect to view the new york skyline

1172
00:47:22,069 --> 00:47:20,559
on my way home and i expect to see the

1173
00:47:25,109 --> 00:47:22,079
empire state building

1174
00:47:27,430 --> 00:47:25,119
um but um in any case i i

1175
00:47:28,549 --> 00:47:27,440
i think it's highly unlikely that they

1176
00:47:31,030 --> 00:47:28,559
were making it up

1177
00:47:32,870 --> 00:47:31,040
something happened i don't know what if

1178
00:47:34,710 --> 00:47:32,880
what they think happened happened

1179
00:47:36,309 --> 00:47:34,720
but i'm quite sure something happened

1180
00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:36,319
that's my opinion anyway

1181
00:47:41,990 --> 00:47:39,440
um yeah he brought up uh

1182
00:47:44,549 --> 00:47:42,000
travis walton and that's exactly how

1183
00:47:46,790 --> 00:47:44,559
i've always felt about him

1184
00:47:48,230 --> 00:47:46,800
that he comes across as a hundred

1185
00:47:50,230 --> 00:47:48,240
percent uh

1186
00:47:52,150 --> 00:47:50,240
sincere in his story and there were

1187
00:47:54,630 --> 00:47:52,160
multiple witnesses

1188
00:47:55,750 --> 00:47:54,640
and a lot of odd things happened too

1189
00:47:59,750 --> 00:47:55,760
that weren't

1190
00:48:03,109 --> 00:47:59,760
were hard to explain something

1191
00:48:04,230 --> 00:48:03,119
strange happened to uh travis the people

1192
00:48:07,190 --> 00:48:04,240
involved with that

1193
00:48:07,670 --> 00:48:07,200
who knows for sure exactly what it was

1194
00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:07,680
and

1195
00:48:13,190 --> 00:48:10,079
then you get the you know as these

1196
00:48:16,710 --> 00:48:13,200
stories evolve over the years you have

1197
00:48:19,030 --> 00:48:16,720
movies made about them and you know

1198
00:48:20,790 --> 00:48:19,040
different people writing the stories

1199
00:48:23,829 --> 00:48:20,800
kind of evolved from what they

1200
00:48:25,670 --> 00:48:23,839
originally were yeah i got in a

1201
00:48:27,750 --> 00:48:25,680
discussion with peter robbins once i

1202
00:48:30,710 --> 00:48:27,760
think it's on one of my shows

1203
00:48:31,910 --> 00:48:30,720
yeah it was we're at roswell last year

1204
00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:31,920
no year before last

1205
00:48:37,109 --> 00:48:35,040
in 2017 and i had

1206
00:48:38,630 --> 00:48:37,119
peter robbins was there and i said well

1207
00:48:40,230 --> 00:48:38,640
what do you think happened to travis and

1208
00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:40,240
he says i think he was taken by aliens

1209
00:48:44,470 --> 00:48:41,760
and a ship somewhere and i said

1210
00:48:46,069 --> 00:48:44,480
how do you know that he said well that's

1211
00:48:46,630 --> 00:48:46,079
what he told me and there's witnesses i

1212
00:48:48,390 --> 00:48:46,640
said no

1213
00:48:50,150 --> 00:48:48,400
the only witness was travis the

1214
00:48:50,790 --> 00:48:50,160
witnesses saw travis get zapped by

1215
00:48:52,870 --> 00:48:50,800
something

1216
00:48:54,470 --> 00:48:52,880
right that's that's all we have and he

1217
00:48:56,150 --> 00:48:54,480
says well then you think he's lying i

1218
00:48:57,589 --> 00:48:56,160
said no i don't think he's lying but we

1219
00:48:59,430 --> 00:48:57,599
just don't know what happened

1220
00:49:00,950 --> 00:48:59,440
in those few days when he wasn't around

1221
00:49:03,349 --> 00:49:00,960
well how could he survive i

1222
00:49:04,470 --> 00:49:03,359
said there's a guy that was on coast

1223
00:49:07,430 --> 00:49:04,480
actually recent

1224
00:49:09,270 --> 00:49:07,440
last year or there was at that time who

1225
00:49:11,430 --> 00:49:09,280
had been found living in may

1226
00:49:12,710 --> 00:49:11,440
maine out in the middle of nowhere and

1227
00:49:13,349 --> 00:49:12,720
they asked him how he lived through the

1228
00:49:16,790 --> 00:49:13,359
winters

1229
00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:16,800
would just get up and and exercise and

1230
00:49:19,670 --> 00:49:18,319
walk around till it was warm enough that

1231
00:49:21,670 --> 00:49:19,680
he could go to sleep

1232
00:49:23,270 --> 00:49:21,680
so you know it's not out of the realm of

1233
00:49:25,430 --> 00:49:23,280
possibility that um

1234
00:49:27,109 --> 00:49:25,440
travis walton could have been zapped by

1235
00:49:28,390 --> 00:49:27,119
something and then been in some weird

1236
00:49:30,549 --> 00:49:28,400
state for a while

1237
00:49:32,710 --> 00:49:30,559
now you know does that mean where does

1238
00:49:34,150 --> 00:49:32,720
reality start and you know and

1239
00:49:35,670 --> 00:49:34,160
you know physical reality or mental

1240
00:49:36,390 --> 00:49:35,680
reality or whatever you want to call it

1241
00:49:42,790 --> 00:49:36,400
and

1242
00:49:44,549 --> 00:49:42,800
i have no idea but i i think travis is

1243
00:49:46,710 --> 00:49:44,559
telling the story as he sees it

1244
00:49:48,309 --> 00:49:46,720
absolutely but if we were sitting there

1245
00:49:50,549 --> 00:49:48,319
you know standing with him after all of

1246
00:49:52,309 --> 00:49:50,559
his friends took off in a panic

1247
00:49:54,150 --> 00:49:52,319
i don't know what we would have seen and

1248
00:49:55,190 --> 00:49:54,160
maybe he wandered off down the path i

1249
00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:55,200
have no idea

1250
00:50:00,230 --> 00:49:58,640
no we we don't exactly know i would i

1251
00:50:02,790 --> 00:50:00,240
think that my

1252
00:50:03,510 --> 00:50:02,800
my thought might be somewhere between

1253
00:50:06,870 --> 00:50:03,520
yours

1254
00:50:09,109 --> 00:50:06,880
and peter robbins i would say that

1255
00:50:09,910 --> 00:50:09,119
there was something in the sky they all

1256
00:50:12,630 --> 00:50:09,920
saw

1257
00:50:15,109 --> 00:50:12,640
something in the sky and something from

1258
00:50:17,270 --> 00:50:15,119
the skies zapped travis

1259
00:50:18,790 --> 00:50:17,280
although it's not really clear what that

1260
00:50:21,990 --> 00:50:18,800
something was and

1261
00:50:25,109 --> 00:50:22,000
whether travis went up in it or not

1262
00:50:28,870 --> 00:50:25,119
but i would say that um what he

1263
00:50:32,549 --> 00:50:28,880
saw may have clearly been

1264
00:50:35,750 --> 00:50:32,559
colored by the uh

1265
00:50:36,630 --> 00:50:35,760
the uh hairless ape brain and i'm i'm

1266
00:50:38,870 --> 00:50:36,640
pleased

1267
00:50:41,589 --> 00:50:38,880
travis don't get me wrong i'm not

1268
00:50:45,589 --> 00:50:43,030
you know what i'm saying but i hope

1269
00:50:47,670 --> 00:50:45,599
travis does should he ever listen to it

1270
00:50:49,589 --> 00:50:47,680
i'm being completely agnostic about it

1271
00:50:51,270 --> 00:50:49,599
i'm not saying that he made anything up

1272
00:50:53,270 --> 00:50:51,280
or that he was delusional

1273
00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:53,280
i'm completely agnostic i'm just saying

1274
00:50:55,430 --> 00:50:55,040
there are so many possibilities there

1275
00:50:57,270 --> 00:50:55,440
and just

1276
00:50:58,790 --> 00:50:57,280
saying he was taken by aliens on a ship

1277
00:51:02,390 --> 00:50:58,800
like well there's

1278
00:51:04,230 --> 00:51:02,400
maybe that's like that's that's just

1279
00:51:06,390 --> 00:51:04,240
go ahead i was gonna say that's another

1280
00:51:09,670 --> 00:51:06,400
odd part of the story because

1281
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:09,680
in one telling of his uh

1282
00:51:12,790 --> 00:51:12,480
experience as i recall he's he was on a

1283
00:51:14,630 --> 00:51:12,800
ship

1284
00:51:15,829 --> 00:51:14,640
and there's some humans that are like in

1285
00:51:18,790 --> 00:51:15,839
uniforms

1286
00:51:20,710 --> 00:51:18,800
right earth earth people earth looking

1287
00:51:22,309 --> 00:51:20,720
yeah well that's that's a common contact

1288
00:51:25,990 --> 00:51:22,319
key thing too actually yeah

1289
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:26,000
well there's that part of it um seems

1290
00:51:32,549 --> 00:51:29,040
sort of explainable

1291
00:51:36,630 --> 00:51:32,559
in my mind simply by the idea that

1292
00:51:40,069 --> 00:51:36,640
um you know a person a human being um

1293
00:51:43,190 --> 00:51:40,079
an angry ape here uh like us

1294
00:51:44,630 --> 00:51:43,200
um has certain preconceived ideas in

1295
00:51:47,750 --> 00:51:44,640
their mind about

1296
00:51:50,549 --> 00:51:47,760
what um 4d reality is

1297
00:51:51,030 --> 00:51:50,559
and um there's a thought that either our

1298
00:51:54,069 --> 00:51:51,040
minds

1299
00:51:56,950 --> 00:51:54,079
are twisting what we see or

1300
00:51:58,630 --> 00:51:56,960
whoever the others are are projecting

1301
00:52:01,270 --> 00:51:58,640
something

1302
00:52:05,670 --> 00:52:01,280
to us that they think that we might be

1303
00:52:07,349 --> 00:52:05,680
able to understand

1304
00:52:09,430 --> 00:52:07,359
i suppose so but there's no way of

1305
00:52:11,589 --> 00:52:09,440
checking on that i mean that that's a

1306
00:52:13,750 --> 00:52:11,599
guess

1307
00:52:15,270 --> 00:52:13,760
we can look at how we do and i do think

1308
00:52:16,950 --> 00:52:15,280
there's something that i mean people say

1309
00:52:18,309 --> 00:52:16,960
oh you're so skeptical it's like no i do

1310
00:52:19,910 --> 00:52:18,319
think there's actually something that's

1311
00:52:21,190 --> 00:52:19,920
not human that communicates with some

1312
00:52:23,349 --> 00:52:21,200
people sometimes

1313
00:52:24,790 --> 00:52:23,359
right um past that we have to we start

1314
00:52:25,430 --> 00:52:24,800
going on assumptions because you give

1315
00:52:28,710 --> 00:52:25,440
the

1316
00:52:30,150 --> 00:52:28,720
example of you know um i can't remember

1317
00:52:31,589 --> 00:52:30,160
what you said earlier but what it made

1318
00:52:34,309 --> 00:52:31,599
me think of was

1319
00:52:35,910 --> 00:52:34,319
you can't make a comparison of

1320
00:52:36,870 --> 00:52:35,920
somebody's memories to something that

1321
00:52:38,790 --> 00:52:36,880
nobody knows

1322
00:52:40,309 --> 00:52:38,800
anything about like if somebody says i

1323
00:52:41,670 --> 00:52:40,319
remember a murder well we know how

1324
00:52:43,670 --> 00:52:41,680
murders happen

1325
00:52:45,430 --> 00:52:43,680
for the most part but if they say i

1326
00:52:46,790 --> 00:52:45,440
remember being taken on a ship somewhere

1327
00:52:48,150 --> 00:52:46,800
well that's not something that really

1328
00:52:50,710 --> 00:52:48,160
happens to everybody

1329
00:52:52,069 --> 00:52:50,720
any you know most people every day um

1330
00:52:54,150 --> 00:52:52,079
well murders don't either but you know

1331
00:52:57,270 --> 00:52:54,160
what i'm getting at here yes

1332
00:53:00,150 --> 00:52:57,280
yeah you you've you can't

1333
00:53:01,670 --> 00:53:00,160
start saying well this is real in in a

1334
00:53:03,109 --> 00:53:01,680
reality way that we think of reality

1335
00:53:05,030 --> 00:53:03,119
because there's nothing there's no way

1336
00:53:06,790 --> 00:53:05,040
to produce it on demand really

1337
00:53:08,230 --> 00:53:06,800
well that doesn't mean it's not real it

1338
00:53:09,829 --> 00:53:08,240
doesn't mean it's not people didn't have

1339
00:53:12,390 --> 00:53:09,839
this experiences but

1340
00:53:14,870 --> 00:53:12,400
we're looking at it through uh means

1341
00:53:18,150 --> 00:53:14,880
that are not normal to us

1342
00:53:19,190 --> 00:53:18,160
there's one situation i think i'm going

1343
00:53:21,430 --> 00:53:19,200
to bring it up here

1344
00:53:22,549 --> 00:53:21,440
now uh even though it's not about your

1345
00:53:24,630 --> 00:53:22,559
book and i want to

1346
00:53:26,230 --> 00:53:24,640
get back to your book at some point i

1347
00:53:29,190 --> 00:53:26,240
guess let's please get back

1348
00:53:30,870 --> 00:53:29,200
i'm sorry no but i gotta i gotta bring

1349
00:53:34,870 --> 00:53:30,880
this up because you said this

1350
00:53:37,990 --> 00:53:34,880
um there is a situation uh involving

1351
00:53:40,309 --> 00:53:38,000
um a skip outward who was

1352
00:53:41,190 --> 00:53:40,319
tasking remote viewers it has to do with

1353
00:53:43,510 --> 00:53:41,200
ufos

1354
00:53:44,390 --> 00:53:43,520
he was tasking remote viewers about what

1355
00:53:48,150 --> 00:53:44,400
happened

1356
00:53:50,630 --> 00:53:48,160
um on a ship that was a

1357
00:53:53,510 --> 00:53:50,640
on the east coast of south america it

1358
00:53:56,069 --> 00:53:53,520
was a military vehicle ship

1359
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:56,079
i believe and it was i think an

1360
00:53:59,430 --> 00:53:57,280
argentinian

1361
00:54:02,710 --> 00:53:59,440
vessel but it wasn't then there were

1362
00:54:06,630 --> 00:54:02,720
like oh i don't know i'm gonna say

1363
00:54:09,349 --> 00:54:06,640
uh multitudes of guys on it like

1364
00:54:09,910 --> 00:54:09,359
over 30 men on the ship i think it was

1365
00:54:12,950 --> 00:54:09,920
all men

1366
00:54:15,349 --> 00:54:12,960
in fact and so he skipped order

1367
00:54:16,230 --> 00:54:15,359
tasked a number of remote viewers just

1368
00:54:19,589 --> 00:54:16,240
with a

1369
00:54:22,790 --> 00:54:19,599
a number like a a five-digit number

1370
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:22,800
uh that was supposed to be um having

1371
00:54:26,470 --> 00:54:24,000
something to do with the ship

1372
00:54:27,109 --> 00:54:26,480
it was selected at random the the remote

1373
00:54:30,150 --> 00:54:27,119
viewers

1374
00:54:33,190 --> 00:54:30,160
who were tasked with this uh

1375
00:54:35,589 --> 00:54:33,200
uh viewing uh did not know

1376
00:54:37,190 --> 00:54:35,599
where in the world or out of the world

1377
00:54:40,549 --> 00:54:37,200
like it could have been on venus

1378
00:54:43,910 --> 00:54:40,559
in 1842 or it could be

1379
00:54:47,190 --> 00:54:43,920
in the future in maine they had no idea

1380
00:54:48,630 --> 00:54:47,200
where or how this event took place they

1381
00:54:50,630 --> 00:54:48,640
didn't know it was about a ship or

1382
00:54:51,829 --> 00:54:50,640
argentina or anything they were just

1383
00:54:54,870 --> 00:54:51,839
given a series of four

1384
00:54:58,630 --> 00:54:54,880
numbers uh and separately they remote

1385
00:55:01,190 --> 00:54:58,640
viewed what it was and all of them

1386
00:55:01,990 --> 00:55:01,200
pretty much and some of them who people

1387
00:55:05,030 --> 00:55:02,000
who i know

1388
00:55:07,430 --> 00:55:05,040
paul smith um

1389
00:55:08,549 --> 00:55:07,440
what's his name um mcmanagal joe

1390
00:55:11,910 --> 00:55:08,559
mcmonagle

1391
00:55:14,910 --> 00:55:11,920
a couple of other people were all tasked

1392
00:55:16,069 --> 00:55:14,920
separately with looking at this number

1393
00:55:18,549 --> 00:55:16,079
3546

1394
00:55:19,990 --> 00:55:18,559
let's say and that's all they had and

1395
00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:20,000
they all came up

1396
00:55:25,349 --> 00:55:24,000
with the guys were whooped up into space

1397
00:55:28,150 --> 00:55:25,359
they didn't even know there were guys

1398
00:55:31,190 --> 00:55:28,160
involved or a ship was involved they got

1399
00:55:31,510 --> 00:55:31,200
they all got it was a ship and there

1400
00:55:35,349 --> 00:55:31,520
were

1401
00:55:39,190 --> 00:55:35,359
so

1402
00:55:40,069 --> 00:55:39,200
it's it's it is a it is a difficult

1403
00:55:41,589 --> 00:55:40,079
conundrum

1404
00:55:43,589 --> 00:55:41,599
we don't know how they got that

1405
00:55:45,270 --> 00:55:43,599
information but it's interesting that

1406
00:55:48,230 --> 00:55:45,280
they all came up with the same

1407
00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:48,240
or similar sort of answers yeah of

1408
00:55:50,870 --> 00:55:49,680
something that can't be proven

1409
00:55:52,870 --> 00:55:50,880
externally so

1410
00:55:54,710 --> 00:55:52,880
who knows what you do with that but it's

1411
00:55:57,670 --> 00:55:54,720
it's a very interesting data point

1412
00:55:59,270 --> 00:55:57,680
it's compelling i would say yeah but

1413
00:56:02,789 --> 00:55:59,280
getting back to your book

1414
00:56:06,390 --> 00:56:02,799
uh i know what uh what

1415
00:56:09,109 --> 00:56:06,400
don ecker would answer for this

1416
00:56:10,390 --> 00:56:09,119
he would say guy kirkwood was the most

1417
00:56:13,750 --> 00:56:10,400
notorious

1418
00:56:16,230 --> 00:56:13,760
of all these fellows

1419
00:56:17,670 --> 00:56:16,240
and ladies in the book but in your

1420
00:56:21,670 --> 00:56:17,680
opinion who

1421
00:56:24,870 --> 00:56:21,680
was the most phony fake and outright

1422
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,910
oh jeez

1423
00:56:31,990 --> 00:56:30,309
i i really don't know i mean i can't i

1424
00:56:33,430 --> 00:56:32,000
mean we didn't include sean morton in

1425
00:56:35,589 --> 00:56:33,440
there so i can't say him

1426
00:56:36,549 --> 00:56:35,599
yeah well he's he's he's in jail now

1427
00:56:38,549 --> 00:56:36,559
isn't he we help

1428
00:56:41,430 --> 00:56:38,559
i know i went to the trial part of it

1429
00:56:42,950 --> 00:56:41,440
yeah i know that was cool

1430
00:56:45,829 --> 00:56:42,960
yeah i can't think of anybody where i

1431
00:56:48,069 --> 00:56:45,839
just have this like oh god whatever

1432
00:56:49,109 --> 00:56:48,079
um because the ones that weren't they

1433
00:56:50,549 --> 00:56:49,119
were so

1434
00:56:52,309 --> 00:56:50,559
for the most part they were fairly

1435
00:56:56,309 --> 00:56:52,319
gentle but i don't know maybe

1436
00:57:00,150 --> 00:56:56,319
uh buck nelson possibly i don't know

1437
00:57:04,309 --> 00:57:00,160
well i'd uh point to harold bernie as

1438
00:57:07,349 --> 00:57:04,319
uh a straight straight out con man who

1439
00:57:10,630 --> 00:57:07,359
uh basically

1440
00:57:14,230 --> 00:57:10,640
started right this was like in

1441
00:57:16,309 --> 00:57:14,240
the uh oh during the uh

1442
00:57:17,589 --> 00:57:16,319
you know early 50s when the whole

1443
00:57:21,270 --> 00:57:17,599
contact e

1444
00:57:24,150 --> 00:57:21,280
movement uh started rolling that

1445
00:57:27,190 --> 00:57:24,160
he cashed in on it by coming up with a

1446
00:57:30,309 --> 00:57:27,200
false tale that he had actually

1447
00:57:33,829 --> 00:57:30,319
as part of his corporation

1448
00:57:34,549 --> 00:57:33,839
and other industrialists he had gone to

1449
00:57:40,630 --> 00:57:34,559
venus

1450
00:57:41,750 --> 00:57:40,640
work on some projects uh where they

1451
00:57:44,950 --> 00:57:41,760
could bring

1452
00:57:47,829 --> 00:57:44,960
alien technology or to be uh more

1453
00:57:52,390 --> 00:57:47,839
specific venusian technology

1454
00:57:53,990 --> 00:57:52,400
to earth yeah i get you i get you there

1455
00:57:58,150 --> 00:57:54,000
greg

1456
00:57:58,470 --> 00:57:58,160
i i always quote that marlena dietrich

1457
00:58:04,309 --> 00:57:58,480
in

1458
00:58:06,390 --> 00:58:04,319
all the time when this stuff comes up go

1459
00:58:10,150 --> 00:58:06,400
ahead i'm sorry

1460
00:58:14,309 --> 00:58:10,160
and uh so yeah he got investors

1461
00:58:17,109 --> 00:58:14,319
to uh uh invest in his uh

1462
00:58:18,390 --> 00:58:17,119
phony corporation he wrote a uh book

1463
00:58:20,309 --> 00:58:18,400
that i don't know if it was ever

1464
00:58:23,190 --> 00:58:20,319
published for anybody

1465
00:58:24,950 --> 00:58:23,200
has seen called uh something like two

1466
00:58:27,109 --> 00:58:24,960
weeks yeah it was called two weeks on

1467
00:58:32,230 --> 00:58:27,119
venus

1468
00:58:35,589 --> 00:58:32,240
and uh part part of his uh

1469
00:58:38,710 --> 00:58:35,599
that's my band dude part

1470
00:58:40,789 --> 00:58:38,720
part of his uh scam was uh

1471
00:58:42,069 --> 00:58:40,799
he wanted to desert his wife while he

1472
00:58:45,910 --> 00:58:42,079
was at it too

1473
00:58:46,470 --> 00:58:45,920
yeah and so his uh wife uh received a

1474
00:58:49,030 --> 00:58:46,480
letter

1475
00:58:50,390 --> 00:58:49,040
one day from the prince i can't even say

1476
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:50,400
his name

1477
00:58:56,390 --> 00:58:54,240
the prince on venus saying that

1478
00:58:57,670 --> 00:58:56,400
harold bernie her husband had died and

1479
00:59:00,789 --> 00:58:57,680
he was laying in state

1480
00:59:05,829 --> 00:59:00,799
in uh venus and

1481
00:59:09,430 --> 00:59:08,230
and so that was his excuse for deserting

1482
00:59:13,270 --> 00:59:09,440
his wife they later

1483
00:59:16,150 --> 00:59:13,280
uh tracked him down and he was uh

1484
00:59:17,990 --> 00:59:16,160
convicted on wire fraud and some other

1485
00:59:21,030 --> 00:59:18,000
things for bamboozling different

1486
00:59:24,549 --> 00:59:21,040
investors with his venusian

1487
00:59:26,789 --> 00:59:24,559
uh tale and uh yeah that sounds very

1488
00:59:27,349 --> 00:59:26,799
familiar to something in the present and

1489
00:59:47,109 --> 00:59:27,359
i

1490
00:59:48,390 --> 00:59:47,119
and well yeah there's there's a few adam

1491
00:59:50,549 --> 00:59:48,400
wrote that one which is why i didn't

1492
00:59:52,549 --> 00:59:50,559
remember yeah that's a good one

1493
00:59:54,069 --> 00:59:52,559
sometimes it takes my brain a bit to

1494
00:59:57,270 --> 00:59:54,079
engage but there was also

1495
01:00:00,069 --> 00:59:57,280
uh schmidt

1496
01:00:01,109 --> 01:00:00,079
i'm forgetting his uh reinhold schmidt

1497
01:00:04,870 --> 01:00:01,119
yes reinhold

1498
01:00:05,829 --> 01:00:04,880
uh schmidt yeah he was uh apparently he

1499
01:00:08,710 --> 01:00:05,839
was uh

1500
01:00:10,150 --> 01:00:08,720
convicted too of uh fleecing little old

1501
01:00:14,549 --> 01:00:10,160
ladies out of their

1502
01:00:17,910 --> 01:00:14,559
retirement savings he claimed that uh

1503
01:00:21,030 --> 01:00:17,920
he had done a uh flyover

1504
01:00:23,670 --> 01:00:21,040
you know he uh befriended some venusians

1505
01:00:26,710 --> 01:00:23,680
or vice versa and they took him

1506
01:00:29,510 --> 01:00:26,720
on a flight around earth where they were

1507
01:00:32,390 --> 01:00:29,520
able to

1508
01:00:34,390 --> 01:00:32,400
find some different i guess it was

1509
01:00:37,990 --> 01:00:34,400
mining deposits

1510
01:00:39,430 --> 01:00:38,000
that everybody would get rich off of so

1511
01:00:42,150 --> 01:00:39,440
he got investors and that

1512
01:00:44,710 --> 01:00:42,160
scheme once again was similar to harold

1513
01:00:48,150 --> 01:00:44,720
bernie these were senior citizens

1514
01:00:52,230 --> 01:00:48,160
elderly uh women that he would

1515
01:00:54,390 --> 01:00:52,240
uh bamboozle i guess he you know schmidt

1516
01:00:55,990 --> 01:00:54,400
traveled around the country to different

1517
01:00:59,270 --> 01:00:56,000
flying saucer clubs

1518
01:01:01,670 --> 01:00:59,280
and uh anyway eventually

1519
01:01:03,349 --> 01:01:01,680
the authorities caught wind of what he

1520
01:01:06,230 --> 01:01:03,359
was up to and he ended up

1521
01:01:07,910 --> 01:01:06,240
doing a five-year stint in prison so

1522
01:01:10,230 --> 01:01:07,920
there yeah there was a few of them the

1523
01:01:14,230 --> 01:01:10,240
harold bernie's and the reinhold

1524
01:01:18,069 --> 01:01:14,240
schmitz and otis t carr

1525
01:01:20,710 --> 01:01:18,079
yeah that was one the uh

1526
01:01:22,309 --> 01:01:20,720
one thing that was interesting to me is

1527
01:01:24,549 --> 01:01:22,319
that the two

1528
01:01:26,069 --> 01:01:24,559
young sisters they look like almost

1529
01:01:27,109 --> 01:01:26,079
teenagers they may have been in their

1530
01:01:29,829 --> 01:01:27,119
20s and

1531
01:01:31,910 --> 01:01:29,839
uh they were contactees and then they

1532
01:01:35,589 --> 01:01:31,920
they actually did really disappear

1533
01:01:38,950 --> 01:01:37,990
i'll have to ask tim beckley he's the

1534
01:01:41,430 --> 01:01:38,960
one who

1535
01:01:42,309 --> 01:01:41,440
told me they had disappeared now they

1536
01:01:45,510 --> 01:01:42,319
might have just

1537
01:01:48,549 --> 01:01:45,520
left the saucer scene you know they were

1538
01:01:50,470 --> 01:01:48,559
he talked about them as they were older

1539
01:01:52,549 --> 01:01:50,480
ladies more like they're in their 40s

1540
01:01:54,710 --> 01:01:52,559
and 50s when they had

1541
01:01:56,710 --> 01:01:54,720
their they were the mitchell sisters

1542
01:01:58,390 --> 01:01:56,720
helen and betty yes they looked young in

1543
01:02:02,069 --> 01:01:58,400
their picture but maybe they weren't

1544
01:02:04,950 --> 01:02:02,079
as young as their picture and uh yeah

1545
01:02:07,990 --> 01:02:04,960
they had encounters with the

1546
01:02:10,870 --> 01:02:08,000
martians supposedly and they they had

1547
01:02:11,589 --> 01:02:10,880
uh i think uh beckley actually knew them

1548
01:02:15,589 --> 01:02:11,599
they were in this

1549
01:02:19,029 --> 01:02:15,599
around the uh st louis area uh

1550
01:02:20,549 --> 01:02:19,039
and uh yeah that that was the last uh

1551
01:02:22,630 --> 01:02:20,559
you know he framed it as they had

1552
01:02:25,029 --> 01:02:22,640
disappeared but

1553
01:02:27,029 --> 01:02:25,039
who knows a lot of times uh perhaps

1554
01:02:28,470 --> 01:02:27,039
we'll just move on

1555
01:02:30,870 --> 01:02:28,480
okay because that was sort of

1556
01:02:31,670 --> 01:02:30,880
interesting to me if if they actually

1557
01:02:35,109 --> 01:02:31,680
did

1558
01:02:37,349 --> 01:02:35,119
physically disappear from uh from sight

1559
01:02:38,470 --> 01:02:37,359
uh that i would hope they didn't come to

1560
01:02:42,630 --> 01:02:38,480
any bad

1561
01:02:45,750 --> 01:02:42,640
end like with somebody like reinhold uh

1562
01:02:46,549 --> 01:02:45,760
schmidt there or some other person but

1563
01:02:49,589 --> 01:02:46,559
uh

1564
01:02:50,069 --> 01:02:49,599
so yeah one other thing that occurs to

1565
01:02:53,510 --> 01:02:50,079
me

1566
01:02:57,190 --> 01:02:53,520
beginning of the show

1567
01:02:58,390 --> 01:02:57,200
is that uh if some of the contactees

1568
01:03:02,069 --> 01:02:58,400
remind me

1569
01:03:05,270 --> 01:03:02,079
greatly of today's people who have

1570
01:03:09,430 --> 01:03:05,280
ndes because they it is

1571
01:03:10,150 --> 01:03:09,440
cast in a religious perspective to some

1572
01:03:12,390 --> 01:03:10,160
of them

1573
01:03:13,670 --> 01:03:12,400
and um there are certain parts of their

1574
01:03:17,029 --> 01:03:13,680
stories

1575
01:03:18,950 --> 01:03:17,039
that are similar and clearly

1576
01:03:21,029 --> 01:03:18,960
while the people who had near-death

1577
01:03:24,309 --> 01:03:21,039
experiences clearly they did

1578
01:03:25,349 --> 01:03:24,319
in fact uh uh cease to breathe in a

1579
01:03:28,230 --> 01:03:25,359
heartbeat

1580
01:03:30,789 --> 01:03:28,240
so that they were flatlining and uh like

1581
01:03:31,910 --> 01:03:30,799
some of the contactees particularly some

1582
01:03:35,349 --> 01:03:31,920
of the women

1583
01:03:38,390 --> 01:03:35,359
that were mentioned uh by both of you as

1584
01:03:39,750 --> 01:03:38,400
perhaps one of your favorites um they

1585
01:03:43,109 --> 01:03:39,760
did have a psychic

1586
01:03:46,309 --> 01:03:43,119
experiences like the the nde people

1587
01:03:47,589 --> 01:03:46,319
they see what's going on in another room

1588
01:03:50,870 --> 01:03:47,599
while they're dead

1589
01:03:55,109 --> 01:03:50,880
and it is uh in fact verified by

1590
01:03:58,069 --> 01:03:55,119
others so uh do you see any um

1591
01:04:00,390 --> 01:03:58,079
sort of coherence there between the two

1592
01:04:02,150 --> 01:04:00,400
groups

1593
01:04:03,670 --> 01:04:02,160
or aren't you familiar with the nde

1594
01:04:05,589 --> 01:04:03,680
people i'm sorry if i

1595
01:04:07,910 --> 01:04:05,599
brought this up out of the blue i'm

1596
01:04:09,750 --> 01:04:07,920
familiar with the mde experience i don't

1597
01:04:13,510 --> 01:04:09,760
know if i'm familiar with the nde

1598
01:04:15,349 --> 01:04:13,520
people um as as as uh i guess there's

1599
01:04:18,390 --> 01:04:15,359
nde celebrities i mean i

1600
01:04:21,349 --> 01:04:18,400
uh i guess you would put uh you know

1601
01:04:23,109 --> 01:04:21,359
uh i don't know about bob monroe but um

1602
01:04:25,510 --> 01:04:23,119
god who's who's a big nde

1603
01:04:27,349 --> 01:04:25,520
uh celebrity i'm i'm not sure right now

1604
01:04:29,910 --> 01:04:27,359
there's a woman with uh who

1605
01:04:31,990 --> 01:04:29,920
who has a middle eastern last name and i

1606
01:04:34,309 --> 01:04:32,000
can't place her name right now

1607
01:04:35,349 --> 01:04:34,319
she's a woman i would say seems to be in

1608
01:04:38,630 --> 01:04:35,359
her 50s

1609
01:04:41,910 --> 01:04:38,640
and she had terminal cancer

1610
01:04:44,390 --> 01:04:41,920
and when she died she

1611
01:04:46,710 --> 01:04:44,400
she had a spiritual experience she

1612
01:04:49,910 --> 01:04:46,720
became a much nicer person

1613
01:04:53,109 --> 01:04:49,920
and um she also uh

1614
01:04:54,390 --> 01:04:53,119
had no cancer after after the experience

1615
01:04:56,950 --> 01:04:54,400
so there are certain

1616
01:04:59,109 --> 01:04:56,960
and that's kind of a pattern that

1617
01:05:01,430 --> 01:04:59,119
happens with some nd ears

1618
01:05:02,150 --> 01:05:01,440
that either they're given some psychic

1619
01:05:05,430 --> 01:05:02,160
knowledge

1620
01:05:07,750 --> 01:05:05,440
which is verifiable um and

1621
01:05:08,549 --> 01:05:07,760
or they're cured from their disease if

1622
01:05:10,950 --> 01:05:08,559
they were

1623
01:05:11,829 --> 01:05:10,960
dying of the disease and that's why they

1624
01:05:14,950 --> 01:05:11,839
they died

1625
01:05:17,270 --> 01:05:14,960
not just had a heart failure which is

1626
01:05:20,309 --> 01:05:17,280
something else

1627
01:05:22,309 --> 01:05:20,319
yeah i can see the parallel there with a

1628
01:05:25,349 --> 01:05:22,319
sort of transformation that there

1629
01:05:27,430 --> 01:05:25,359
there's a change and their life's

1630
01:05:28,710 --> 01:05:27,440
course you know they're on a different

1631
01:05:31,829 --> 01:05:28,720
path now

1632
01:05:33,190 --> 01:05:31,839
which happens to much of the nde people

1633
01:05:34,950 --> 01:05:33,200
it's like well

1634
01:05:36,470 --> 01:05:34,960
i don't i don't have to fear death

1635
01:05:39,349 --> 01:05:36,480
anymore because

1636
01:05:43,109 --> 01:05:39,359
some of them you know might believe that

1637
01:05:47,470 --> 01:05:43,119
there is no death i saw beyond the veil

1638
01:05:50,870 --> 01:05:47,480
and so yeah with many contact users that

1639
01:05:53,670 --> 01:05:50,880
transformative experience

1640
01:05:54,710 --> 01:05:53,680
that you know they feel certain now that

1641
01:05:58,549 --> 01:05:54,720
there's life on

1642
01:06:01,750 --> 01:05:58,559
other planets so it's you know

1643
01:06:05,190 --> 01:06:01,760
much again a religious experience

1644
01:06:06,150 --> 01:06:05,200
in a sense spiritual certainly spiritual

1645
01:06:09,349 --> 01:06:06,160
yeah

1646
01:06:10,870 --> 01:06:09,359
um so uh just uh in

1647
01:06:12,950 --> 01:06:10,880
sort of conclusion because i don't want

1648
01:06:14,470 --> 01:06:12,960
to keep you guys forever you might have

1649
01:06:16,549 --> 01:06:14,480
something else to do with your lives

1650
01:06:18,150 --> 01:06:16,559
this evening

1651
01:06:19,990 --> 01:06:18,160
i can't imagine what could be more

1652
01:06:23,270 --> 01:06:20,000
important than shattered reality

1653
01:06:24,549 --> 01:06:23,280
but that there there might be um perhaps

1654
01:06:27,349 --> 01:06:24,559
you just want to mention

1655
01:06:28,789 --> 01:06:27,359
um your books you know one at a time and

1656
01:06:29,510 --> 01:06:28,799
say what you're doing so you get a

1657
01:06:32,630 --> 01:06:29,520
little

1658
01:06:34,789 --> 01:06:32,640
uh advertisement out of it after all i

1659
01:06:37,270 --> 01:06:34,799
so much appreciate you coming on the

1660
01:06:38,789 --> 01:06:37,280
both of you and your generosity and

1661
01:06:40,549 --> 01:06:38,799
mailing me the book and everything which

1662
01:06:42,630 --> 01:06:40,559
i love i'm just i

1663
01:06:44,390 --> 01:06:42,640
really have to say it's the most

1664
01:06:47,270 --> 01:06:44,400
entertaining fun

1665
01:06:47,670 --> 01:06:47,280
ufo book i have ever read because some

1666
01:06:49,750 --> 01:06:47,680
of them

1667
01:06:51,029 --> 01:06:49,760
i love that i love that comment that's

1668
01:06:53,589 --> 01:06:51,039
great yeah

1669
01:06:54,069 --> 01:06:53,599
i i haven't heard that one yet it's uh

1670
01:06:55,510 --> 01:06:54,079
people are

1671
01:06:57,349 --> 01:06:55,520
like you know you know it seems like

1672
01:06:59,109 --> 01:06:57,359
academic are you making fun of

1673
01:07:00,789 --> 01:06:59,119
fun of them do you believe them nobody

1674
01:07:02,230 --> 01:07:00,799
has just said oh hey it's just fun

1675
01:07:04,789 --> 01:07:02,240
which is kind of what happened when we

1676
01:07:07,910 --> 01:07:04,799
wrote we wrote it i just had fun writing

1677
01:07:10,309 --> 01:07:07,920
good because i had fun reading it and um

1678
01:07:11,270 --> 01:07:10,319
you know sometimes like you know just

1679
01:07:14,309 --> 01:07:11,280
for instance

1680
01:07:17,430 --> 01:07:14,319
ruth norman aka the archangel

1681
01:07:19,910 --> 01:07:17,440
urielle and we see this lady uh

1682
01:07:20,870 --> 01:07:19,920
and it's it's it's precious she has a

1683
01:07:23,109 --> 01:07:20,880
costume

1684
01:07:24,549 --> 01:07:23,119
and there's some guy standing behind her

1685
01:07:28,470 --> 01:07:24,559
and a ufo

1686
01:07:31,349 --> 01:07:28,480
and uh greg is there with uh a

1687
01:07:32,549 --> 01:07:31,359
unarius member leanne and leanne is

1688
01:07:35,430 --> 01:07:32,559
looking admiring

1689
01:07:35,810 --> 01:07:35,440
at the handsome young greg and it's just

1690
01:07:38,309 --> 01:07:35,820
great

1691
01:07:40,789 --> 01:07:38,319
[Laughter]

1692
01:07:42,390 --> 01:07:40,799
it's a great one yes yeah the photos

1693
01:07:45,990 --> 01:07:42,400
really enhance it and i

1694
01:07:49,670 --> 01:07:46,000
tried to find uh photos for every

1695
01:07:53,910 --> 01:07:49,680
every contactor didn't quite make it but

1696
01:07:58,950 --> 01:07:57,029
just more of a sense of who they were

1697
01:08:00,630 --> 01:07:58,960
you know to go along with their stories

1698
01:08:03,029 --> 01:08:00,640
to actually

1699
01:08:05,029 --> 01:08:03,039
see you know see actual photos of these

1700
01:08:07,750 --> 01:08:05,039
different characters

1701
01:08:08,950 --> 01:08:07,760
and and my a compliment to douglas

1702
01:08:11,190 --> 01:08:08,960
curran because

1703
01:08:12,870 --> 01:08:11,200
he's done a marvelous job with i guess

1704
01:08:13,190 --> 01:08:12,880
that's where you got some of the photos

1705
01:08:16,470 --> 01:08:13,200
from

1706
01:08:20,870 --> 01:08:16,480
yes some of the photos yeah the unarious

1707
01:08:23,910 --> 01:08:20,880
uh photo of uh uriel

1708
01:08:24,950 --> 01:08:23,920
uh that's one of douglas's uh photos so

1709
01:08:27,990 --> 01:08:24,960
he was

1710
01:08:29,510 --> 01:08:28,000
generous enough to let me uh use

1711
01:08:32,309 --> 01:08:29,520
whatever i asked for i got

1712
01:08:34,229 --> 01:08:32,319
uh initially i just you know i

1713
01:08:35,910 --> 01:08:34,239
approached him about doing the intro to

1714
01:08:38,550 --> 01:08:35,920
the book and he said yeah

1715
01:08:39,269 --> 01:08:38,560
oh that's great and could i use a couple

1716
01:08:42,789 --> 01:08:39,279
photos

1717
01:08:45,829 --> 01:08:42,799
and then a few uh months later

1718
01:08:46,309 --> 01:08:45,839
uh uh doug can i use a few more photos

1719
01:08:49,669 --> 01:08:46,319
and

1720
01:08:49,990 --> 01:08:49,679
uh by the yeah kept going back to him

1721
01:08:52,390 --> 01:08:50,000
and

1722
01:08:54,470 --> 01:08:52,400
yeah he had no problem that was great

1723
01:08:56,470 --> 01:08:54,480
yeah the book was built around photos

1724
01:08:57,910 --> 01:08:56,480
adam said we have access to all these

1725
01:09:00,229 --> 01:08:57,920
pictures from

1726
01:09:01,110 --> 01:09:00,239
uh that people have either not seen or

1727
01:09:02,550 --> 01:09:01,120
they haven't seen

1728
01:09:04,470 --> 01:09:02,560
in a long time or they haven't been

1729
01:09:06,630 --> 01:09:04,480
really that public and that

1730
01:09:08,309 --> 01:09:06,640
uh that that was the basis for the book

1731
01:09:11,430 --> 01:09:08,319
i mean let's let's uh

1732
01:09:13,189 --> 01:09:11,440
feature all these images but also um

1733
01:09:14,550 --> 01:09:13,199
you know another one of our rules a

1734
01:09:16,390 --> 01:09:14,560
couple of them one

1735
01:09:17,829 --> 01:09:16,400
um you have to find some we have to find

1736
01:09:19,669 --> 01:09:17,839
something new on these people you can't

1737
01:09:20,390 --> 01:09:19,679
just regurgitate things people have said

1738
01:09:23,510 --> 01:09:20,400
before

1739
01:09:27,349 --> 01:09:23,520
do some real actual uh uh

1740
01:09:30,630 --> 01:09:27,359
original research into um that it was

1741
01:09:31,430 --> 01:09:30,640
uh that we find new people and probably

1742
01:09:32,870 --> 01:09:31,440
half the

1743
01:09:34,630 --> 01:09:32,880
half of maybe a third of the people in

1744
01:09:36,149 --> 01:09:34,640
the book i either knew very

1745
01:09:38,149 --> 01:09:36,159
little about or had never heard of them

1746
01:09:40,070 --> 01:09:38,159
before yeah

1747
01:09:41,829 --> 01:09:40,080
that was the couple of the goals of the

1748
01:09:43,110 --> 01:09:41,839
book which i think we accomplished

1749
01:09:43,430 --> 01:09:43,120
because it's kind of book i'd want to

1750
01:09:46,470 --> 01:09:43,440
read

1751
01:09:50,390 --> 01:09:46,480
and

1752
01:09:51,669 --> 01:09:50,400
uh i uh would just say that you both did

1753
01:09:53,510 --> 01:09:51,679
a great job

1754
01:09:55,830 --> 01:09:53,520
um but do you want to mention any of

1755
01:09:59,590 --> 01:09:55,840
your other books and projects and stuff

1756
01:10:03,669 --> 01:10:02,550
you go first greg uh let's see the most

1757
01:10:06,070 --> 01:10:03,679
recent one was

1758
01:10:06,790 --> 01:10:06,080
uh it defies language which you

1759
01:10:08,630 --> 01:10:06,800
mentioned

1760
01:10:10,149 --> 01:10:08,640
um that that currently is my favorite

1761
01:10:11,189 --> 01:10:10,159
because i get to spout off about all

1762
01:10:14,390 --> 01:10:11,199
kinds of stuff

1763
01:10:16,390 --> 01:10:14,400
of course it's project beta um weird

1764
01:10:19,750 --> 01:10:16,400
california yeah you mentioned them all

1765
01:10:21,669 --> 01:10:19,760
so the uh the only real ad i have is uh

1766
01:10:23,110 --> 01:10:21,679
listen to my show it gets posted when i

1767
01:10:25,189 --> 01:10:23,120
feel like posting a show

1768
01:10:27,189 --> 01:10:25,199
it's not in any kind of it's not on any

1769
01:10:28,390 --> 01:10:27,199
schedule when i have somebody on when i

1770
01:10:29,590 --> 01:10:28,400
have somebody that i figure is

1771
01:10:31,430 --> 01:10:29,600
interesting to me and

1772
01:10:33,189 --> 01:10:31,440
i can have an interesting interview i do

1773
01:10:34,870 --> 01:10:33,199
it um so

1774
01:10:36,870 --> 01:10:34,880
if you stick with me uh maybe you'll

1775
01:10:39,990 --> 01:10:36,880
hear some here here's some fun stuff

1776
01:10:45,189 --> 01:10:40,000
oh absolutely i i agree i do listen

1777
01:10:48,470 --> 01:10:45,199
and um thank you you are one of my

1778
01:10:52,390 --> 01:10:48,480
teachers if you will i mean between you

1779
01:10:54,709 --> 01:10:52,400
and howard hughes and a few other people

1780
01:10:56,149 --> 01:10:54,719
out there that i do listen to on a

1781
01:10:58,390 --> 01:10:56,159
regular basis

1782
01:11:04,790 --> 01:10:58,400
and there are some some out there that i

1783
01:11:08,870 --> 01:11:06,180
they shall go nameless

1784
01:11:12,229 --> 01:11:08,880
[Laughter]

1785
01:11:14,310 --> 01:11:12,239
in any case um thank you both what but

1786
01:11:17,910 --> 01:11:14,320
first adam gets to talk now right he

1787
01:11:20,870 --> 01:11:17,920
he gets to say his his stuff his uh

1788
01:11:21,830 --> 01:11:20,880
his uh books etc his projects what's up

1789
01:11:26,070 --> 01:11:21,840
next for

1790
01:11:29,430 --> 01:11:26,080
adam go rightly you know another ufo

1791
01:11:33,270 --> 01:11:29,440
book and uh greg has seen this or

1792
01:11:36,310 --> 01:11:33,280
early draft of it and it has to do

1793
01:11:39,750 --> 01:11:36,320
uh well it has to do

1794
01:11:40,070 --> 01:11:39,760
with more than ufo disinformation but

1795
01:11:44,550 --> 01:11:40,080
that

1796
01:11:48,470 --> 01:11:44,560
done

1797
01:11:50,550 --> 01:11:48,480
in in the can and uh

1798
01:11:52,229 --> 01:11:50,560
maybe we'll see it this year it'll be

1799
01:11:56,390 --> 01:11:52,239
published by the

1800
01:12:00,390 --> 01:11:56,400
daily grill uh so that's upcoming and

1801
01:12:02,390 --> 01:12:00,400
that'll probably be the uh last ufo book

1802
01:12:04,390 --> 01:12:02,400
i ever write who knows but uh

1803
01:12:05,830 --> 01:12:04,400
i've been working on you know both of

1804
01:12:08,709 --> 01:12:05,840
these books for

1805
01:12:09,590 --> 01:12:08,719
a number of years um i've written quite

1806
01:12:12,270 --> 01:12:09,600
a bit about

1807
01:12:13,990 --> 01:12:12,280
uh this quote-unquote spoof religion

1808
01:12:16,390 --> 01:12:14,000
discordianism

1809
01:12:18,149 --> 01:12:16,400
book about carrie thornley the prankster

1810
01:12:21,510 --> 01:12:18,159
and the conspiracy and

1811
01:12:23,510 --> 01:12:21,520
one on the history of uh discordianism

1812
01:12:26,430 --> 01:12:23,520
called historia discordia

1813
01:12:28,550 --> 01:12:26,440
and there's a website called

1814
01:12:31,990 --> 01:12:28,560
historiadiscordia.com

1815
01:12:36,310 --> 01:12:32,000
and then recently i

1816
01:12:39,430 --> 01:12:36,320
launched a website called chasing ufos

1817
01:12:41,990 --> 01:12:39,440
i'll have to take a look at that one uh

1818
01:12:42,950 --> 01:12:42,000
i'm trying to remember the exact title

1819
01:12:46,070 --> 01:12:42,960
but yeah if you

1820
01:12:49,350 --> 01:12:46,080
look chasing ufos

1821
01:12:50,870 --> 01:12:49,360
go rightly you'll find that site and i'm

1822
01:12:54,550 --> 01:12:50,880
kind of using that

1823
01:12:57,910 --> 01:12:54,560
to promote uh the

1824
01:12:59,350 --> 01:12:57,920
a is for a damski by uh having some

1825
01:13:02,149 --> 01:12:59,360
excerpts and other

1826
01:13:03,350 --> 01:13:02,159
ufo writings i've done so that's that's

1827
01:13:06,390 --> 01:13:03,360
kind of new

1828
01:13:09,510 --> 01:13:06,400
and uh that's about it i'm also

1829
01:13:11,350 --> 01:13:09,520
going to be in a independent motion

1830
01:13:13,830 --> 01:13:11,360
picture

1831
01:13:15,350 --> 01:13:13,840
that's going to be uh there's going to

1832
01:13:18,310 --> 01:13:15,360
be a premiere

1833
01:13:19,590 --> 01:13:18,320
on the 20th the 20th of this month in

1834
01:13:22,790 --> 01:13:19,600
raton

1835
01:13:25,350 --> 01:13:22,800
new mexico and it's called the hill and

1836
01:13:28,310 --> 01:13:25,360
the hole it's based on a fritz lieber

1837
01:13:29,430 --> 01:13:28,320
story it's kind of a how would you

1838
01:13:32,870 --> 01:13:29,440
describe this

1839
01:13:36,630 --> 01:13:32,880
thing it's kind of a ghost story

1840
01:13:40,149 --> 01:13:36,640
a twin peakish type of

1841
01:13:43,350 --> 01:13:40,159
endeavor and i play a

1842
01:13:47,430 --> 01:13:43,360
character by the name of roger person

1843
01:13:50,790 --> 01:13:47,440
who has his hands on a lot of stuff

1844
01:13:51,430 --> 01:13:50,800
interesting interesting wow that so you

1845
01:13:54,630 --> 01:13:51,440
are very

1846
01:13:56,709 --> 01:13:54,640
a multi-uh multi-talented as it were

1847
01:13:59,270 --> 01:13:56,719
and i forgot one thing that i wanted to

1848
01:14:02,310 --> 01:13:59,280
say we did have one question

1849
01:14:05,590 --> 01:14:02,320
from one listener which was for adam

1850
01:14:07,870 --> 01:14:05,600
and that was what he thought about the

1851
01:14:09,189 --> 01:14:07,880
other book that was sort of

1852
01:14:11,430 --> 01:14:09,199
conspiratorial

1853
01:14:13,350 --> 01:14:11,440
on laurel canyon i'm trying to remember

1854
01:14:16,229 --> 01:14:13,360
the guy's name but i think you know

1855
01:14:16,870 --> 01:14:16,239
what i'm talking about dave mcgowan yes

1856
01:14:19,910 --> 01:14:16,880
yes

1857
01:14:22,790 --> 01:14:19,920
that was the question from ours

1858
01:14:24,550 --> 01:14:22,800
yeah i'm trying to remember the exact uh

1859
01:14:27,110 --> 01:14:24,560
title but uh

1860
01:14:27,990 --> 01:14:27,120
dave mcgowan actually passed on a couple

1861
01:14:31,590 --> 01:14:28,000
years ago yes

1862
01:14:32,390 --> 01:14:31,600
yes fortunately yes and he had started

1863
01:14:35,510 --> 01:14:32,400
that book

1864
01:14:38,630 --> 01:14:35,520
uh actually a decade ago or so

1865
01:14:41,350 --> 01:14:38,640
with on his website he's putting writing

1866
01:14:44,630 --> 01:14:41,360
installments of this oral canyon

1867
01:14:48,229 --> 01:14:44,640
series and the premise of it

1868
01:14:51,270 --> 01:14:48,239
it was basically that the

1869
01:14:54,070 --> 01:14:51,280
60s counterculture and

1870
01:14:55,430 --> 01:14:54,080
specifically the rock music scene had

1871
01:14:58,470 --> 01:14:55,440
been

1872
01:15:01,990 --> 01:14:58,480
infiltrated by intelligence

1873
01:15:05,590 --> 01:15:02,000
agencies i guess to kind of undermine

1874
01:15:06,709 --> 01:15:05,600
the 60s counter culture and one of the

1875
01:15:09,830 --> 01:15:06,719
things he

1876
01:15:11,910 --> 01:15:09,840
pointed to was a lot of these different

1877
01:15:13,910 --> 01:15:11,920
rock stars of that period they ended up

1878
01:15:16,790 --> 01:15:13,920
in laurel canyon

1879
01:15:18,229 --> 01:15:16,800
and i guess during world war ii there

1880
01:15:22,630 --> 01:15:18,239
had been

1881
01:15:24,950 --> 01:15:22,640
in oral canyon there been based a secret

1882
01:15:26,149 --> 01:15:24,960
intelligence operation connected to

1883
01:15:28,390 --> 01:15:26,159
world war

1884
01:15:29,510 --> 01:15:28,400
ii where they were developing different

1885
01:15:33,110 --> 01:15:29,520
propaganda

1886
01:15:36,310 --> 01:15:33,120
films or whatever and he's and uh

1887
01:15:38,470 --> 01:15:36,320
mcgowan went on to theorize or

1888
01:15:40,870 --> 01:15:38,480
you know what he suggested it was an

1889
01:15:41,189 --> 01:15:40,880
ongoing intelligence operation a lot of

1890
01:15:48,550 --> 01:15:41,199
the

1891
01:15:51,430 --> 01:15:48,560
uh parents had been involved in uh

1892
01:15:52,709 --> 01:15:51,440
world war ii and as intelligence

1893
01:15:55,830 --> 01:15:52,719
officers of course

1894
01:15:57,590 --> 01:15:55,840
the argument to that is a lot of those

1895
01:16:00,790 --> 01:15:57,600
rock stars yeah they

1896
01:16:03,590 --> 01:16:00,800
were boring during that uh period and a

1897
01:16:06,870 --> 01:16:03,600
lot of people were involved in the uh

1898
01:16:08,390 --> 01:16:06,880
war effort now he finally came out with

1899
01:16:13,430 --> 01:16:08,400
the book

1900
01:16:17,830 --> 01:16:15,910
and a highly entertaining book i don't

1901
01:16:21,590 --> 01:16:17,840
necessarily buy into the

1902
01:16:24,229 --> 01:16:21,600
thesis but it did real well at the time

1903
01:16:26,070 --> 01:16:24,239
for a conspiracy book which kind of

1904
01:16:28,709 --> 01:16:26,080
aggravated him when he

1905
01:16:29,990 --> 01:16:28,719
started seeing you know itself published

1906
01:16:32,630 --> 01:16:30,000
his earlier stuff but

1907
01:16:33,430 --> 01:16:32,640
with this book he got a major publisher

1908
01:16:36,229 --> 01:16:33,440
behind it

1909
01:16:37,270 --> 01:16:36,239
and it was uh really sewing like

1910
01:16:39,990 --> 01:16:37,280
hotcakes

1911
01:16:42,790 --> 01:16:40,000
and uh but uh he was kind of aggravated

1912
01:16:44,550 --> 01:16:42,800
when he actually saw the royalties

1913
01:16:47,030 --> 01:16:44,560
when you work with the real publisher

1914
01:16:50,229 --> 01:16:47,040
you don't make a lot but uh

1915
01:16:53,750 --> 01:16:50,239
he was getting a measure of fame

1916
01:16:56,229 --> 01:16:53,760
during that period he was approached by

1917
01:16:58,470 --> 01:16:56,239
hollywood for a documentary on that

1918
01:17:01,030 --> 01:16:58,480
series then the next thing i hear he has

1919
01:17:05,830 --> 01:17:04,070
and he was battling that then he died

1920
01:17:08,070 --> 01:17:05,840
not soon after so probably

1921
01:17:11,350 --> 01:17:08,080
within a year or so the publication of

1922
01:17:14,709 --> 01:17:11,360
that book he uh passed on it was really

1923
01:17:18,470 --> 01:17:14,719
fast uh acting cancer that

1924
01:17:22,310 --> 01:17:18,480
overtook him well yeah i get i guess

1925
01:17:23,110 --> 01:17:22,320
to top it all off it's a great reading

1926
01:17:26,229 --> 01:17:23,120
for a

1927
01:17:28,310 --> 01:17:26,239
conspiracy book very entertaining one of

1928
01:17:29,590 --> 01:17:28,320
those books that will suck you into it

1929
01:17:32,709 --> 01:17:29,600
but

1930
01:17:35,510 --> 01:17:32,719
i don't necessarily buy into the

1931
01:17:37,350 --> 01:17:35,520
his premise behind the book well well

1932
01:17:38,870 --> 01:17:37,360
thank you for that because one of our

1933
01:17:41,590 --> 01:17:38,880
listeners did

1934
01:17:42,070 --> 01:17:41,600
uh see that you were coming on and did

1935
01:17:44,310 --> 01:17:42,080
uh

1936
01:17:45,669 --> 01:17:44,320
send in that question so we appreciate

1937
01:17:49,110 --> 01:17:45,679
your answering that

1938
01:17:51,669 --> 01:17:49,120
and um once again before we say goodbye

1939
01:17:52,630 --> 01:17:51,679
to adam go rightly and greg bishop and

1940
01:17:56,830 --> 01:17:52,640
their book

1941
01:18:00,149 --> 01:17:56,840
a is for adamski the golden age of ufo

1942
01:18:01,110 --> 01:18:00,159
contactees with um forward by douglas

1943
01:18:03,270 --> 01:18:01,120
curran who

1944
01:18:05,510 --> 01:18:03,280
took some of the photos thank you so

1945
01:18:08,310 --> 01:18:05,520
much guys

1946
01:18:09,270 --> 01:18:08,320
thank you thanks so much and we'll say

1947
01:18:11,990 --> 01:18:09,280
adios and

1948
01:18:14,229 --> 01:18:12,000
i hope to speak to both of you again

1949
01:18:18,070 --> 01:18:14,239
either on the air or off the air

1950
01:18:21,910 --> 01:18:18,080
take care bye-bye so

1951
01:18:25,030 --> 01:18:21,920
um shattered reality listeners that was

1952
01:18:27,189 --> 01:18:25,040
a very interesting

1953
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show from my point of view at least from

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my eardrums i

1955
01:18:32,149 --> 01:18:31,360
enjoyed talking to these two guys so if

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you have

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uh any comments we will be

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glad to answer them if you have any

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guest suggestions we will be glad

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01:18:48,709 --> 01:18:44,640
to consider them uh and uh please

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like us on facebook

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shatteredrealitypodcast.wordpress.com

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and shadowrealitypodcast.com

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we are also on stitcher

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we're on youtube we're on

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itunes and probably places i don't even

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know about

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so thanks so much everybody for tuning

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in

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with episode 84 and we have some very

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good

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guests coming our way in the next

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month and a half and i'm not going to

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preview them right now because i don't

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know what order they're going to appear

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in so i don't want to tell you that mr x

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is

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next when it actually turns out to be

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miss y

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uh so just as a final

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statement goodbye from